SECRETARY OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES BILL. (Hansard, 16 September 1909)

§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE EARL OF CREWE)
My Lords, this measure is one which has passed in another place without opposition, and I venture to hope that its fate will be equally fortunate in your Lordships' House. For some time past there has been a feeling that the Board of Agriculture, although administered in turn by Statesmen of the highest capacity and experience, has not quite taken the place among public Offices to which its intrinsic importance undoubtedly entitles it. It deals with what, after all, remains our greatest national industry, and we should all agree, I think, especially in this House, that the Office which is concerned with that industry ought to be and to be treated as one of the first importance. It is proposed by this Bill to create a Secretary to the Board. As your Lordships know, the work of the Board in another place has been carried out, I think with general acceptance, by a gentleman who holds an office in His Majesty's Household; but it is felt, and I trust your Lordships will agree, that it is desirable that the representation as it now happens in another place should 1228 be placed on a more regular footing, and it is with that object that this Bill is introduced. I ask your Lordships to give it a Second Reading.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW
My Lords, I am very glad that His Majesty's Government have introduced this Bill. I have been very much in the same position as the noble Earl who is now President of the Board of Agriculture is in at the present moment. I have had to rely upon the services of a member of His Majesty's Household in the House of Commons, and I am bound to say that the duties which he discharged were discharged in the most efficient manner. At the same time there is no doubt a feeling in the House that if a Minister is not connected with the Department, with access to all the Papers, he does not represent the Department in the same fulness and with the same force as if he were the Secretary of the Department. The noble Earl said that for the moment the Board was represented in the other House by a gentleman who was not connected with it. By that I suppose he meant that the time might come when the President of the Board would be in the other House of Parliament and the Secretary would have to be in this. I think it would be a great advantage that we should always have in this House a representative of the Board of Agriculture. When I say that, I think it applies even more strongly to some of the other Departments, and I think it is a little singular that at the present moment we have no representative of the Foreign Office in this House. I cannot recollect a time since I have had the honour of a seat in your Lordships' House when there has been no representative here of the Foreign Office. Nor is there any direct representative of the Home Office or of the Admiralty. I am aware that it has always been a practice that some of the Departments should be represented in this House by some of those who hold office in His Majesty's Household, but I hope this Bill is an augury of good, and that His Majesty's Government will be led by the reception which this Bill has received to feel that the House desires that there should be a direct representative of all the important Departments, not only in the other House of Parliament, but also in this.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
My Lords, I do not rise to offer any opposition on this Bill, but I think that in the circumstances of the present moment the Bill ought not to be allowed to pass altogether without remark. In the raising of salaries of offices, in the creation of new offices, and in expenditure generally, the present Government have had no rival among any of the Governments that I can recollect; and if all their schemes at present in existence are carried out I am sure this country will be possessed of a bureaucracy such as it has never before enjoyed in its history, and His Majesty's Government will have earned the undying gratitude of all professions, such as valuers, doctors, and people of that sort, for whom unlimited places will have been created. I do not take exception to this particular instance of it because, as the noble Earl has said, it is quite right to have a Secretary to the Board of Agriculture; but I want to ask the noble Earl who leads the House whether when this Bill was drawn up there was any idea of another Bill which has just been introduced into your Lordships' House, and which, I suppose, at some time or other we may be asked to consider. The noble Earl the Secretary of State for the Colonies has so many things to do—I am sure I am very sorry for him—that he may very likely not have had time to observe that his colleague who sits near him (Lord Pentland) has just introduced a Bill by which he proposes to take away the Scottish portion of the work of the Board of Agriculture from his colleague Lord Carrington. It appears to me that if half the business of the office is to be taken away, what we ought to be considering is rather whether Lord Carrington's salary ought not to be reduced than a proposal to give him a Secretary. But very likely this Bill may have been introduced and entered on your Lordships' Journals without any reference to Lord Carrington, because, as we know, there is very little communication between some of His Majesty's Departments under the present Administration. However that may be, if the Bill is brought forward, there will no doubt be some criticism in your Lordships' House and it is not necessary for me to make any now. But I should like to know whether, when it was proposed to create this new position of Secretary of the Board of Agriculture, it was known that it was proposed to create an additional Office 1230 with regard to agriculture in Scotland which would deprive the present Office of a very considerable part of its duties.

§ THE EARL OF CREWE
My Lords, I can answer the noble Earl's question very easily. I am greatly obliged to him for the sympathy which he expressed so kindly for me regarding my multifarious duties, which I am afraid are more than I can properly carry out; but as regards this particular point I might refer the noble Earl to the debate which took place on the Second Reading of this Bill in another place. He will see there that the question of the Bill which has been read a first time on the motion of my noble friend behind me (Lord Pentland) was fully discussed, and that it certainly was with the full cognisance of everybody concerned with the production of this Bill that the Scottish Bill was also introduced. The two, as I think the noble Earl will see, are by no means incompatible.