HL Deb 19 May 1909 vol 1 cc1103-6
LORD MUSKERRY

rose to move for a Return "showing how many British foreign-going sailing ships are recorded as 'missing' during each of the past five years; the tonnage of those vessels; what number of certificated officers they were carrying on leaving port, and the number of men composing their crews, with their respective ratings and nationality in each case."

The noble Lord said

My Lords, to refer briefly to the subject of this Motion, I may say that of late there seems to have been an alarming frequency of cases where British foreign-going sailing ships have been posted at Lloyd's as missing. Only this year there was one missing in February, one in March, and one last month. It is well known the sorry way in which most sailing ships are manned. Quite usually fifty per cent. or more of their crews are men of any nationality but our own. But, putting nationality apart, I am firmly convinced that the actual numerical strength of the crews of our sailing ships is one which demands searching investigation. I under- stand that this question of manning has lately been before the Advisory Committee of the Board of Trade, and that as a result of this the Board have now issued instructions to their principal officers, superintendents, and surveyors, providing that steamers of certain sizes and lengths should carry a stipulated number of efficient deck hands.

But I notice that foreign-going sailing ships appear not to have been considered in connection with manning, and there is no real standard to which they must conform if only as a minimum. Therefore, I seek information so that we may see exactly how British sailing ships are manned—at least, in the case of those vessels which, within the last five years, have been posted as missing. There is, of course, the deeper loading of British ships which is now permissible, which possibly may account for some of these disasters. But I have made no mention of this in my Question, simply because the new regulations only came into vogue comparatively recently, whereas the subject of my Motion spreads over the last five years.

Then, again, there arises the important factor as to the number of certificated officers carried on board these ships. I am told, for instance, that the sailing ship "Toxteth," a large vessel of 2,585 tons which was posted as "missing" not long ago, carried one certificated officer only besides the captain. I do not hesitate to say that in this respect the ship was gravely undermanned. Her crew, inclusive of the steward and cook, appear to have numbered twenty-four only, four of whom were ordinary seamen, and one a deck boy, and ten of whom, from their names, would appear to have been aliens, though there may have been more, as aliens often ship under English names I have no hesitation in saying that no ships of the size of the "Toxteth" could possibly be efficiently or sufficiently manned with such a niggardly crew, and if this mode of manning is a sample of the manning Of other foreign-going sailing vessels, as I believe it is, then the sooner a very radical change is made the better, particularly so in protection of the lives of the unfortunate men who are the helpless victims of a system which not only admits of sweating but of peril to their lives also. I learn from my noble friend that he is going to give us as full information as possible, and then we may be better able to judge what the real position is, and whether, for the safety of our merchant seafarers, it is necessary to deal with it further.

Before concluding I wish to thank my noble friend opposite for the kindness and courtesy he has always shown when I have brought matters of this kind before your Lordships. I fully appreciate the unpleasant position in which he finds himself, when I bring forward a measure with which personally he is in sympathy though a sense of stern duty to the Department he so ably represents compels him to oppose, and, to use his own words, appear as the advocate of all that is base and uncharitable; but I am sure he acquits me of any desire to make him appear in such a role. It is the fault of the Department he represents and when that Department, as I hope it will, reforms and realises its duty better towards the service on which England depends so much, then, to quote him again, the official mouthpiece will find his task much more pleasant and congenial.

Moved, "That there be laid before the House a Return showing how many British foreign-going sailing ships are recorded as 'missing' during each of the past five years; the tonnage of those vessels, what number of certificated officers they were carrying on leaving port, and the number of men composing their crews, with their respective ratings and nationality in each case."—(Lord Muskerry.)

LORD ELLENBOROUGH

My Lords, I think it would add greatly to the value of this Return if the amounts for which the lost ships were insured were added, and I hope the Government will be able to give the Return with this addition. I am sorry I have to leave the House as I should have been very glad to remain to listen to the noble Lord's answer to my noble friend Lord Musherry.

LORD HAMILTON OF DALZELL

The noble Lord need not wait very long to hear my answer, because I think I can give it in a very few words. With regard to his request that the amount for which the ships were insured should be given in the Return, I may say that it is not included in the Return I have here, but I will make inquiries to see if it is possible to add the information. The Return for which Lord Muskerry has asked has been prepared as fully as possible, and if it were not for the question just asked I should be prepared to lay it on the Table at this moment. I will wait a few days.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

Lay it now.

LORD HAMILTON OF DALZELL

I will adopt the course suggested by the noble Marquess; and the noble Lord, after he-has seen the Return, can refer to the matter again.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.