LORD MUSKERRYMy Lords I rise to ask whether British merchant vessels commonly leave ports in the United Kingdom in the winter time carrying deck-cargoes in the form of boilers, cylinders, railway wagons, and other heavy and cumbersome material; whether the Board of Trade have any regulations or adopt any special precautions in regard to such cargoes; and also to move for a Return from the Board of Trade showing the number of vessels which have carried these deck-cargoes from ports in the United Kingdom, and giving particulars of accidents which have arisen out of them during the past five winter seasons.
I am given to understand from those who know best—that is, those who have had practical experience in the matter—that many of our merchant ships leave home ports in the wintertime in a dangerous condition owing to deck-cargoes of the nature indicated in my notice. As your Lordships know, we legislate against British ships bringing dangerous deck-loads of timber into the United Kingdom during the winter time. Therefore, it seems to me somewhat of an anomaly, and a dangerous anomaly at that, that British ships can carry dangerous deck-loads out of the United Kingdom with perfect impunity. I am told that even in the case of large 19 passenger steamers—particularly in the Eastern trades—these deck-loads are of quite usual occurrence. I am not opposed to reason in this matter, but it seems to me that it is one necessitating inquiry and careful consideration, particularly as I am informed that there have been some narrow escapes through deck cargoes getting adrift in bad weather and causing serious structural damage, which might result in the total loss of a ship with her crew, and also her passengers, did she carry any. I should be glad to hear that the Board of Trade are prepared to grant the Return for which I am moving, for then we should be able to go further into the matter and ascertain whether it was necessary or desirable to deal with it by legislation or otherwise.
§ Moved, for a Return showing the number of vessels which have carried deck cargoes from ports in the United Kingdom, and giving particulars of accidents which have arisen out of them during the past five winter seasons.—(Lord Muskerry.)
LORD HAMILTON OF DALZELLMy Lords, the noble Lord has really asked three questions, and it would, perhaps, be better that I should give a categorical answer to each. In the first place, he asks whether British merchant vessels commonly leave ports in the United Kingdom in the winter time carrying deck-cargoes in the form of boilers, cylinders, railway wagons, and other heavy and cumbersome material. In answer to that, I have to say that such cargoes are frequently carried, and as long as they are properly stowed and properly secured there does not seem to be any reason for interfering with the practice. It is obvious that there are certain large pieces of machinery which it is difficult to get into the hold of a ship, and, providing that proper precautions are taken, no objection is seen to the practice. Then the noble Lord asks whether the Board of Trade have any regulations, or adopt any special precautions in regard to such cargoes. In reply I have to say that there are no detailed regulations, but the Board of Trade surveyors have a general power to detain any ship which is improperly loaded. Any ship with a deck-cargo considered to be dangerous would be 20 detained, and I have here a record of a case which occurred as lately as the 14th of last month at Glasgow, where a ship was so detained, until the cargo was re-stowed to the satisfaction of the Board of Trade Surveyor. Then the noble Lord moves for a Return showing the number of vessels which have carried these deck-cargoes from ports in the United Kingdom. I do not think that it would be possible to furnish a Return of that sort, because no records exist as to whether the ships carried a deck-cargo or not. Therefore I am afraid there are no materials from which such a Return could be compiled. As to giving particulars of accidents which have arisen out of the carrying of deck-cargoes, there we are very much in the region of conjecture. If a ship is lost with all hands it is very difficult to say exactly the reason. It would be possible, of course, to compile a Return, though that would entail an enormous amount of labour, but it would be impossible to make such a Return complete became there are not the particulars to go upon in every case. I therefore hope the noble Lord will not press for the Return, but will be content with the practice which has been followed for some time of leaving this matter in the hands of the Board of Trade surveyors, who act very conscientiously, and, I think, without fear or favour, and who are invariably supported by the Board of Trade if they think it necessary to detain a vessel.
LORD MUSKERRYAfter what the noble Lord has said, I will not press my Motion, but I would like to remind him that my information comes from the men who have been in these ships at sea. That is very different from seeing the ships in dock. There can be no doubt that the carrying of these deck-cargoes is extremely dangerous.
LORD HAMILTON OF DALZELLIf the noble Lord could give the Board of Trade any instance where dangerous cargoes have been carried, I am sure the information would be most gratefully received and promptly acted upon.
§ Motion, by leave, withdrawn.