§ LORD HAVERSHAMMy Lords, I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War whether it has been decided in the case of officers entitled to pensions under Article 510 of the Royal Warrant that the post of secretary to a County Association involves the loss of their pension.
§ THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTHMy Lords, in reply to the Question put to me by my noble friend, I am afraid it is impossible that the pension should be retained in such cases. These men are Regular officers who would not be entitled by their years of service to retiring pay or Regular Army pensions. In certain circumstances, however, the War Office allowed them to retire, on condition that they took a commission in the Militia or Yeomanry, and in return for that they received a retaining fee of £100, involving liability to come up for 290 annual training and to be mobilised. The secretaryship of a County Association is practically a Civil appointment, and the holder of it could not fulfil these liabilities. For these reasons, as I have said, we have laid it down that a Militia officer cannot retain his £100 a year if he becomes a secretary of a County Association. As regards a Yeoman, we have not got a definite rule of that kind, but we say he must be seconded, and the effect is the same.
§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI am inclined to think the account which the noble Earl gave of the circumstances under which these so-called pensions were granted under Article 510 of the Royal Warrant was a perfectly correct account, and I can quite appreciate the view taken by the War Office. I understood the noble Earl to say that he regarded these secretaryship as of the nature of Civil appointments or approaching thereto. If they are appointments of that kind I do hope that the emoluments of the holders will be fixed at a figure having some relation to the duties to be discharged. The sum of £100, if that is the figure which the Army Council has in mind, seems to me to be one showing a wholly inadequate appreciation of the importance of the post.
§ THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTHI do not think the Army Council have ever come to any decision as to what would be adequate remuneration. They have certainly not limited it to £100. I may add that the establishment grant for the various units has been raised. The effect of that, we hope, will be that in most counties there will be a sufficient sum of money to enable an adequate remuneration to be given to the secretary.
§ THE MARQUESS OF BATHMay I inquire whether the officers who become secretaries of Associations are merely seconded?
§ THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTHWe have already decided the matter, by an order, in the case of Militia officers. No Militia officer can become the secretary of an Association. In the case of a Yeoman, we have not decided that he 291 could not become a secretary, but that he must be seconded. The practical effect would be the same. We hope that the Militia officers who are now in receipt of a retaining fee of £100 a year will join the Special Reserve, but they may decline to join the Special Reserve, and then rather a delicate question arises, because we would be imposing upon them the obligation of foreign service, which they did not originally undertake. Those cases will have to be considered on their merits.
§ *LORD HAVERSHAMI presume that the officers who have earned Army pensions will retain them?
§ THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTHYes. What I have said does not apply to men who are entitled to Army retired pay.
LORD SAYE AND SELEIt is evident that no officer in the Special Reserve can take one of these secretaryships, because if war breaks out he cannot be in two places at once.
§ THE EARL OF PORTSMOUTHWe cannot allow the secretary of a County Association to mobilise. That is quite clear.
§ House adjourned at twenty minutes past Seven o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.