POISONS AND PHARMACY BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 18 December 1908)

* THE LORD PRIVYSEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of CREWE)
My Lords, your Lordships will remember that long discussions have taken place in more than one session over this Bill, discussions which, I am glad to say, are now brought to a close by the few Amendments standing on the Paper to this Bill, and which I hope your Lordships will have no difficulty in accepting. They represent the final agreement which has been come to between the different parties—that is to say, the regular chemists on the one hand, and the representatives of drug stores and similar commercial bodies on the other. I do not know that there is any special point on which I need trouble your Lordships, and I will, therefore, proceed to move the Amendments. The Commons' first Amendment is to omit from the first subsection of Clause 2— '2. (1) So much of the Pharmacy Aot,'1868, as makes it an offence for any person to sell or keep open shop for the sale of poisons, unless he is a duly registered pharmaceutical chemist or chemist and druggist and conforms to regulations made under Section one of that Act, shall not apply in the case of poisonous substances containing arsenic, tobacco, or the alkaloids of tobacco, to be used exclusively in agriculture or horticulture for the destruction of insects, fungi, or bacteria, or as sheep dips or weed killers, if the person so selling or keeping open shop is duly licensed for the purpose under this section by a local authority, and conforms to any regulations as to the keeping, transporting, and selling of poisons made under this section, but nothing in this section shall exempt any person so licensed from the requirements of any other provision of the Pharmacy Act, 1868, or of the Arsenic Act, 1851, relating to poisons, the words "containing arsenic, tobacco, or the alkaloids of tobacco," and to insert, after the words "weed killers," the words "which are poisonous by reason of their containing arsenic, tobacco or the alkaloids of tobacco." I move that the Commons' Amendment be agreed to.

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
The next Amendment is in paragraph (a) of subsection (3)— (3) His Majesty may, by Order in Council, make regulations as to: (a) The granting of licences under this section and the local authorities by which such licences may be granted; and The Commons propose to omit from this paragraph all words after the word "section."

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
The next Amendment is to insert, at the end of the clause, the following new subsection— (4) The local authority for the purposes of this section shall, as respects the area of any municipal borough in England having a population of more than ten thousand according to the last published census for the time being, be the council of that borough, and as respects the area of any royal, parliamentary, or police burgh in Scotland, be the town council, and as respects any other place be the council of the county. The local authority is defined in this Amendment instead of being left to be settled by regulation. I move that we agree.

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
The next Amendment is in subsection (4) of Clause 3. The subsection provides that— A body corporate, and in Scotland a firm or partnership, may carry on the business of a pharmaceutical chemist or chemist and druggist, if in every premises where the business is carried on the business is bona fide conducted by a manager or assistant being a duly registered pharmaceutical chemist or chemist and druggist, as the case may be, and if the name and certificate of qualification of the person so qualified is conspicuously exhibited in the shop or other place in which he so conducts the business. 2192 The Commons propose to omit from this subsection all words from the first mention of the word "druggist," and to insert: "(a) if the business of the body corporate, firm, or partnership, so far as it relates to the keeping, retailing, and dispensing of poisons, is under the control and management of a superintendent who is a duly registered pharmaceutical chemist or chemist and druggist, whose name has been forwarded to the registrar appointed under the Pharmacy Act, 1852, to be entered by him in a register to be kept for that purpose, and who does not act at the same time in a similar capacity for any other body corporate, firm or partnership; and (b) if in all premises where such business as aforesaid is carried on, and is not personally conducted by the superintendent, such business is bona fide conducted under the direction of the superintendent by a manager or assistant who is a duly registered pharmaceutical chemist or chemist and druggist, and whose certificate of qualification is conspicuously exhibited in the shop or other place in which he so conducts the business." This was the clause round which the controversy raged for so long, and these Amendments in fact represent the compromise which I suggested earlier in the year when I received a deputation on the subject. They have beer, accepted by the Pharmaceutical Society and also by Lord Ebury on behalf of the co-operative stores, and I believe they may be said to represent the final and a very fair arrangement on the question. The real point was as to what ought to be done to prevent the formation of bogus companies, and I think these words, which have been very carefully thought out, meet that point altogether. Therefore, I move that your Lordships agree with this Amendment.

§ LORD ASHBOURNE
As I understand, the governing idea in these subsections is that there shall always be in every establishment, whether it belongs to a company or an individual, a qualified pharmaceutical chemist, and that it 2193 will not be possible to get behind that by any regulation.

§ THE EARL OF CREWE
That is so.

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
The Commons Amendment to paragraph (b) of Clause 4— (b) Providing for the registration, upon payment of the prescribed fee, as pharmaceutical chemists or chemists and druggists under the Pharmacy Acts, 1852 and 1868, without examination, of any persons holding colonial diplomas or of qualified military dispensers who produce evidence satisfactory to the council of the society that they are persons of sufficient skill and knowledge to be so registered, is to insert, after the word "dispensers," the words "or certified assistants to apothecaries under the Apothecaries Act, 1815." This simply increases, to some extent, the discretion of the Pharmaceutical Society as to the persons they may recognise under their by-laws. It is considered that without the Amendment there would be some hardship.

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
In Clause 6— 6. This Act may be cited as the Poisons and Pharmacy Act, 1908, and shall come into operation on the first day of January, nineteen hundred and nine, the Commons have made an Amendment leaving out the word "January" and inserting the word "April."

§ * THE EARL OF CREWE
The next Amendment is a new clause— (a) Upon the death of any person registered under the Pharmacy Act (Ireland) (1875) 2194 Amendment Act, 1890, as a chemist and druggist or registered druggist and actually in business at the time of his death, it shall be lawful for any executor, administrator, or trustee of his estate to continue such business if and so long only as such business is bona fide conducted by an assistant being a duly registered pharmaceutical chemist or licentiate apothecary, or duly registered chemist and druggist, or duly registered druggist. This clause deals with what is known as the widows' case—that is, where a business is allowed to be carried on by a successor in the family under certain circumstances. An extension is made to Ireland in this matter.

§ THE EARL OF CREWE
The last Amendment is in line 9 of the Schedule— Belladonna, and all preparations or admixtures containing 0.1 or more per cent. of belladonna alkaloids. The Commons have inserted, after the word "admixtures," the words "except belladonna plasters." Belladonna plasters are excepted, I believe, by general agreement, but I do not know why.