LORD MONK BRETTONMy Lords, I rise to call attention to the Report of the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into the subject of agricultural education in England and Wales, and to the Memorandum on the same subject, recently issued by the Board of Education; and to ask His Majesty's Government what action they propose to take in order to curry out the recommendations, and especially the financial recommendations, contained in the former, as well as to secure continuity and co-ordination of agricultural education generally, without the risk of overlapping the work of the two Departments.
I think I can best deal with this matter, by telling the House how my own attention was called to it. I am a member of a local authority which possesses an agricultural college. That college was started at the time when the late Lord Goschen gave what is commonly known as the whisky money to county councils. They had more ample means then than they have now. The Education Act, 690 1902, has since come into force, involving heavy expenditure all round. So much so, that the county council with which I am connected had to look round in order to economies, and as a result of their probable economies, I think the agricultural college, to which I have referred, is in very considerable danger. It receives a somewhat insignificant grant from the Board of Agriculture. I believe that if that grant is not increased within a short time, the college will be abolished. The local authority has taken no action with regard to it up to now, because it was aware that the Committee presided over by the noble Lord opposite, Lord Reay, was sitting, and because it desired to await their Report, and the action which H.M. Government might take with regard to it. The Report of that Committee has now been issued, and we are only waiting to know what his Majesty's Government intend to do with regard to the Committee's recommendations. There is no doubt at all that the Report of the Committee is in favour of increased grants to these institutions.
I believe this story, which is personal to my own county, is typical of what is taking place all over the country. Since I have been in the House I have received a letter from a noble Lord regretting his inability to be present, but stating that the College of Bangor is in very low circumstances for want of funds. The counties that can do least for agriculture are the agricultural counties, because they are the poorest, and that seems to me a very good reason why we should not depend so largely on the rates for agricultural education. I notice that the Committee say—and we discovered this in our own county—that when there arose the question of the abolition of an agricultural college, the farmers declared that they wished it to be continued. The Committee, in their Report, point out that the attitude of farmers with regard to these agricultural institutions has wholly changed, and that they now regard them as of the greatest importance. I do not think it is necessary in your Lordships' House that I should dwell on the importance of this matter. The noble Earl, the President of the Board of Agriculture, is the great advocate of small holdings The noble Earl wishes to cover the country with small holdings; but if these people are to be 691 successful small holders it is essential that they should have every means of education which it is possible to place within their reach. I remember a Report which was issued to your Lordships two years ago, and a very eloquent speech delivered by the right Rev. Prelate the Bishop of Ripon, on the subject of physical deterioration. The right rev. Prelate called attention to the national need that there was for fostering agricultural districts; he pointed to the birth rate in agricultural communities like Dorsetshire and in industrial communities like Blackburn, and demonstrated that it was absolutely necessary for the preservation of the manhood of the nation that rural affairs should have the fullest attention from His Majesty's Government.
What is the present position of agricultural education in this country? We depend on two Government Departments—the Board of Agriculture and the Board of Education. What does the Board of Agriculture do in this matter The Board gives a grant of £11,500 a year to Universities and colleges. That is the sum total of the money expended by the Board of Agriculture. What the Board of Education does it is impossible to say, because that Board issues no returns from which we can ascertain how much is spent on agricultural education; but from the statistics that I have been able to get at, I am inclined to think that the Board of Education does not spend so much in this direction as the Board of Agriculture. In any case, what is spent in this country is ludicrous when compared with what is spent by other countries. Whilst England and Wales spend £11,500, the Kindom of Prussia spends £100,000. In the United States of America £300,000 is spent by Congress and by the various States for agricultural purposes. Denmark is well known as a country which has done much good progressive work in the matter of agriculture, and the Committee report that in Denmark agricultural education is liberally supported by the Government. France, according to the report of our commercial attache, gives more than £150,000 a year; and it is well known that in our own Colonies a great deal of money is devoted to this purpose. Sir John Cockburn, in giving evidence before the Committee, stated that South Australia gave a grant 692 of £9,000 to one agricultural college, which is almost as large as the whole of the grants of the Board of Agriculture throughout England and Wales.
The work of these colleges is not confined to England and Wales, for they are doing an Imperial work. There is a drain of teachers from this country to other countries requiring agricultural education. One man left our small agricultural college in Sussex for Hong Kong, and another for East Africa. It is not right, therefore, that the expense of the education of these men should fall on the rates. I remember that when I was an official at the Colonial Office that department was called upon to find an agricultural expert for the Transvaal. Sir Thomas Elliott, of the Board of Agriculture, was consulted, and the result was the appointment of Mr. F. B. Smith, who has, since the beginning of Lord Milner's government, been at the head of the Agricultural Department in the Transvaal. He is, I believe, one of the most successful officials in South Africa, and a gentleman who had done more than any other to cement the settlement between the Dutch and the British in the Transvaal, and he owes his education to the Wye Agricultural College in Kent. Why, therefore, should this college be supported at the expense of the rates of Kent and Surrey?
The Committee report that the grants are inadequate. Every Committee and every Commission that has reported on this subject in the last twenty-five years has said the same thing; and every college and every University in the United Kingdom has, I believe, applied to the Board of Agriculture for increased grants. The Committee state quite clearly in their Report—
The funds at present available for agricultural education are wholly inadequate, and considerably increased funds should be provided, the main source of which must be the national exchequer.I venture to ask His Majesty's Government whether these increased funds will be provided from the national exchequer. Before I leave the Board of Agriculture I should like to call attention to the way in which that Department distributes the grants. This will be found in Appendix IV. on page 21 of the Board of Education Memorandum. It will be seen that what the Committee term Universities receive 693 proportionately very much higher grants than colleges. The list starts with £1,250 to the University College of North Wales, Bangor, and concludes with £100 to the agricultural institute at Ridgmont. I do not propose to inquire into the reason why these grants are issued so disproportionately. I think from the evidence it is quite clear that what the Board of Agriculture has done, having limited money at its disposal, has been to devote all the money it thought necessary to the Universities and then distribute the few remaining hundreds of pounds to the colleges. If the whole of the money is to be put into the Universities you will end by having a large number of teachers, but no colleges for them to go to.The grants of the Board of Agriculture begin at the top—namely, with the Universities, and what remains goes to the colleges. The Board of Education, however, does the opposite. The Board of Education begins at the bottom and through its technical regulations gives grants which it declares are to be used for agricultural purposes. But those grants are concealed grants, for in their reports the Board of Education do not differentiate between what is given for agriculture and what is given for other purposes. I wish the noble Viscount the Lord President of the Council were in the House, but in his absence might I ask either the noble Earl the President of the Board of Agriculture or the noble Earl the Leader of the House whether the Government would be prepared to lay upon the Table a Return showing the amount of money expended by the Board of Education on agricultural education in the counties? In Appendix III. of the Board of Education Memorandum, which gives information as to the Parliamentary grants available in respect of agricultural education, I find a total of £29,180, presumably largely for agricultural purposes. Included in that sum is an item of £1,610 for the county of Cumberland. Now, I happen to have heard that of that sum only £70 is spent on agricultural education in that county. Therefore it appears to me that this table is not worth the paper it is printed on. If the county of Cumberland does not get a twentieth, the inference is that of this £29,000 under £1,500 is given for agricultural purposes. As I have said, the 694 Board of Agriculture begins its work at the top. The Board of Education, on the other hand, works up from the bottom, and refuses to give grants to colleges which are under the Board of Agriculture. Therefore in your chain of agricultural education, consisting of the University, the college, the evening school and other outside work, the college is your weakest link. It is hardly touched by the Board of Agriculture and it is put in Coventry by the Board of Education. The result is that the college is in danger of almost immediate extinction. I ask His Majesty's Government to tell us what they propose to do with regard to these colleges. I certainly hope they will put an increased grant on next year's Estimates. If they do not, I am inclined to think they will never be worried by these colleges again, because there will be no colleges in the following year to require grants.
Then there is another point on which I should like to ask His Majesty's Government for information. It relates to what I call the outside work of those colleges and Universities, not the work done in the building for pupils who are devoting their whole time to these studios, but lectures and other work carried on amongst farmers in evening classes. According to the correspondence between Sir Thomas Elliott and Mr. Ogilvie, published in the Board of Education Memorandum, it would appear that the Board of Education are going to give grants in respect of that outside work. That, however, is contrary to the recommendation of the Committee presided over by Lord Reay. That Committee, in paragraph 28 of the summary of their principal conclusions and recommendations, say—
The Committee are of opinion that agricultural instruction, when provided by Universities, University colleges, agricultural colleges, farm institute and winter schools, or by means of special classes or courses of lectures in agriculture and kindred subjects (e.g., dairying, horticulture), should be under the direction of the Board of Agriculture.I venture to ask whether that recommendation is likely to be carried out. If it is, it seems to mo that the Board of Agriculture will require some funds with which to assist those classes. We have waited for the Report of this Committee, and now we are awaiting the decision of His Majesty's Government 695 with regard to it. I hope that the Government will be able to define the spheres of activity of the Board of Education and the Board of Agriculture in order that any friction between them may not be allowed to stand in the way of the very important work which is being carried out by the local authorities in the country. I hope His Majesty's Government will be able to give some information as to the way in which they propose to co-ordinate the whole system—University, college, and technical classes—and to finance it in order to put this country, which has lagged so long behind foreign countries and our own Colonies in this matter, in the position which it ought to occupy.
§ * LORD REAYMy Lords, I thank my noble friend opposite for having called attention, in a very interesting speech, to the Report of the Committee of which I had the honour to be chairman. I rise to press on my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture to give effect, as speedily as he can, to the recommendations of the Committee, more especially with regard to what I would call the grading of agricultural schools. By this grading the University colleges are placed at the top; then follow the agricultural colleges and schools such as winter schools, which are of the greatest importance. Some of the members of the staffs of those colleges would be available for work in the neighbouring districts, and there would be in every county an organiser and a staff of exports to give advice to farmers and carry out experiments of various kinds. Agricultural education would be encouraged if most counties followed the example of the county of Wiltshire, which has through my noble friend the Chancellor of the Duchy secured such an efficient administration. There should be either a special committee for the organisation and supervision of agricultural instruction, or a sub-committee reporting direct to the education committee of the county council in each county, the point being that on such a committee farmers would serve and exercise influence which I consider of the utmost importance in the development especially of the lower grades of agricultural education.
The next point to which I would call the attention of my noble friend the President 696 of the Board of Agriculture is the very great importance of settling clearly the boundary line between the Board of Education and the Board of Agriculture. Elementary and secondary education the Committee considered outside the scope of their inquiry as coming under the control of the Board of Education. If the higher agricultural colleges are placed under the Board of Agriculture, and are made the directing agency for the lower grades of technical agricultural instruction, it is important that the Department which deals with the first category should have control of the whole system. That is attended in Scotland with the best results. There the whole of the lower educational work is organised by the three agricultural colleges on systematic lines which prevent overlapping. I think it will also be found a very sound plan from a financial point of view. I agree with the noble Lord opposite that the amount spent on agricultural education in this country is ludicrously small as compared with the expenditure in foreign countries, and I think the Board of Agriculture have a strong case in approaching the Treasury with a claim for funds for the support of those institutions which are now in a most unsatisfactory financial condition.
In the first place, I think my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture should insist on obtaining money in order that the higher colleges should be placed in a proper position, especially with regard to securing a highly qualified staff. That is important, because a greater supply of well-qualified teachers is needed, and they must be trained at the Universities or University colleges. As the Committee have pointed out, the facilities for agricultural instruction of a lower grade are "unorganised, unsystematic, and wholly inadequate." Farmers all over the country are no longer hostile to agricultural education as they were perhaps, twenty or thirty years ago, but are fully alive to its importance. The Board of Agriculture, being in touch with farmers, is better able than the Board of Education to realise what the farmers require. That is another reason why I desire to see this technical agricultural education under the supervision of the Board of Agriculture. The Committee state that in the next ten 697 years from fifty to sixty winter schools should be provided in England and Wales. That is a moderate estimate. Experience in Denmark has shown that winter schools exercise a most beneficial influence on the development of agriculture in the right direction.
I wish to insist on the urgent need of more State aid being given to veterinary education. We had a good deal of evidence on that subject, and it is quite clear that what has been done hitherto is inadequate and should be largely increased. The provision of scholarships for post-graduate research and travelling fellowships for teachers is also a matter which should not be lost sight of. I am very glad to see that my noble friend Lord Belper is in his place, as he took a prominent part in our discussions and in the preparation of this Report; but I greatly regret that Lord Barnard, to whom the appointment of this Committee was largely due and who has such a thorough knowledge of the subject, is not able to be present. I need hardly point out that all the recommendations of the Committee were unanimous. At one time it was anticipated that there would be a good deal of difference of opinion; but, finally, after a discussion of a very interesting character, we succeeded in coming to unanimous conclusions. I therefore think that we have been able to strengthen the hands of my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture in approaching the Treasury for more grants in aid of this great national industry; and since we have reported, chambers of agriculture and farmers' clubs all over the country have expressed their assent to the Committee's recommendations. We have adopted a definite and constructive policy, and have outlined a comprehensive and thoroughly national scheme, which must be looked at as an organic entity and judged on its merits as a whole.
LORD ZOUCHE OF HARYNGWORTHMy Lords, I think all your Lordships will thoroughly sympathise with the Question asked by the noble Lord and will agree as to the great importance of the subject. It seems to me, if I may venture to say so with great deference, that what is wanted is a general scheme of agricultural education throughout the 698 country, connected with, and as far as possible worked by, the county councils through their education committees or committees more especially devoted to agricultural subjects. In that way you can make use of existing machinery, which in my opinion is an important point. In too many instances what small funds have been available have been injudiciously spent, and instruction has been given on the wrong scale. In West Sussex, to which county I belong, hardly anything has been done in the way of agricultural education on anything like a proper scale. The farmers cannot be said to look with any hostile eye on this. What they complain of is that there is very little to be got out of it. They do not think a system of lectures very practical. It seems to me that if the education is to be effective, it must be made interesting and practical. It may be questioned whether agriculture admits of being taught by lectures and whether it is not entirely a practical subject. I suppose the answer is that there are two sides to agriculture as well as other things, and that the scientific side can, to a great extent, be helped by lectures delivered by experienced men. But there are also the various agricultural operations which can only be taught by practical instruction in the field. This subject has attracted increased attention not only in this country, but in others. I notice, in the Report of the Committee, that allusion is made to the very practical kind of agricultural schools in France. There are some thirty-eight of these, and they consist of farms varying in size from 100 to 350 acres. These farms not only combine theoretical with practical instruction, but are worked at a profit; and it seems to me that if we could take a leaf out of the foreigner's book in that way, and combine instruction with practical working, we should be going a great way to solve the difficulty. I trust that His Majesty's Government will approach this matter in a helpful way, and that this important question of agricultural education will no longer run the risk of perishing from lack of funds.
§ * LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, I should like to say a few words on what I might call the diverse recommendations of the Departmental Committee and the Memorandum of the 699 Board of Education as to the line which divides the sphere of influence, and the sphere of action of the Board of Agriculture and the Board of Education. Personally, I think the recommendation of the Departmental Committee might have gone even a little further than it did. I think, that the moment you come to what may be called secondary education in agriculture, that education should be entirely under the supervision and direction of the Board of Agriculture. The noble Lord who presided over the Departmental Committee has told us that he was careful to guard against stepping into the sphere of the Board of Education wherever there was what one might call a mixed realm, and where in the same sphere of action both agricultural and general education were being treated. But I think that if the Board of Agriculture had under its control the Universities, University colleges, farm institutes, agricultural colleges, and winter schools, it would very soon be found that what might be called the agricultural side in the secondary schools would rapidly decay. The work would be transferred entirely to the institutions which the noble Lord recommends should be placed under the Board of Agriculture, and I think it would be found after a time that the agricultural sphere of influence in the Board of Education would be limited to such preparation for agricultural teaching as it would be advisable to have in the elementary schools. In an elementary school in a rural district it is very essential that the instruction should be, to a certain extent, founded upon agricultural circumstances. By this I mean that if you are going to give something in the nature of a preparatory scientific training to elementary school children it must, of necessity, be applied to the surroundings of the child. You can bring up a scientific student, if he is only to be a theoretically scientific student, under any circumstances at all, providing that your school surroundings are sufficient; but if you are going to give him what I might call a practical, scientific grounding, you must do that where the scientific methods which you teach are linked with the surroundings of his every-day life; and you cannot give this scientifically practical agricultural training in a school situated in a town. It must be done in a rural school, and for this purpose I think there should 700 be inter-communication between the two Departments, so that the teachers who are placed in these rural schools might have had previously some kind of agricultural training which would give them a theoretical knowledge of the subject and enable them to direct the minds of the elementary scholar into a scientific way of looking at agricultural life. The objection is made that of the students in an elementary school in a rural district only a small proportion will take to agricultural life, and that therefore it is a mistake to give an agricultural aspect to the teaching, which may, after all, be only of avail to a small percentage of the students. But, as I have said, the scientific teaching, whatever it is, to be practical must be based on the everyday surroundings and everyday life of the child. I would appeal for a mutual arrangement which would give to the teachers concerned some scientific knowledge of the science of agriculture. Things have altered since the counties first had money given them for technical education. The agricultural instructors whom we have trained during the intervening period now have something to teach the farmers, the farmers recognise that it is so, and the Boord of Agriculture has a very promising work to do if it will take it up in a thorough and systematic manner.
§ THE EARL OF HARROWBYMy Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend, Lord Zouche. I think a great deal of money is wasted by county councils in lectures. My experience of the colleges about the country is that they take in gentlemen's sons, agents' sons, and the sons of large farmers, but there is no school to which the sons of small farmers can go. The country is over-run with unskilled labour, yet it is extremely difficult to get men who can do drain or hedge work. I would like to ask the noble Earl, the President of the Board of Agriculture, who has so nobly taken up the question of small holdings, whether he can do something in the direction of sending to schools some of those boys, who exist in every village, who are intelligent and prepared to follow in the footsteps of their fathers, but fail through want of opportunity.
§ EARL CARRINGTONMy Lords, I have to thank the noble Lord opposite 701 for calling attention to this matter, and for a most interesting and instructive debate. The noble Lord asked for information as to the amount of money spent by the Board of Education on agricultural instruction. I am afraid that would be a somewhat difficult question to answer, but I will submit it to my noble friend the Lord President of the Council and see if any satisfactory reply can be given. I should like to take the first opportunity of giving an assurance that there is no question of disagreement or friction between the two Departments, but there are intricate questions which must be threshed out before any system can be devised for the complete co-ordination of agricultural education. The heavy business of the autumn session has made it absolutely impossible for any definite conclusion to be come to between the two Departments on the recommendations of Lord Reay's Committee, whom I thank most sincerely for the way in which they have dealt with this important subject. I have not had an opportunity, owing to the pressure of work, to go in detail into the consideration of all the proposals, but I hope I shall not be thought very optimistic if I say that I think it will be extremely easy to come to some agreement which will be satisfactory to all concerned. We shall have to go to the Treasury in regard to the possibility of an increased grant. The necessity of that has been earnestly pressed, and I shall be more pleased than anyone if we can obtain more money for the purpose of forwarding agricultural education. I hope it will not be long before the two Departments come to a satisfactory conclusion upon the subject.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, I was very glad to hear the noble Earl say there was no disagreement between himself and his colleague at the head of the Board of Education. I never for a moment supposed that there was. When I had the honour of occupying the position the noble Earl occupies to-day, I found the then Minister for Education, the noble Marquess, Lord Londonderry, willing to do everything he could for the advancement of agricultural education. The noble Marquess was good enough to appoint Mr. Dymond, whose work in promoting agricultural education generally in primary schools is little short of marvellous. There is no friction between 702 the heads of the Departments. But it is clear that the Board of Education think that they alone ought to have the distribution of the grants now given to all except the Universities and the University colleges. I cannot help thinking that there is a serious amount of disagreement on this matter between the Board of Agriculture and the Board of Education, and I hope the noble Earl will devote special attention to trying to come to some understanding between the two Departments. I cannot believe that is impossible. I cannot believe it is even difficult. Many suggestions have been made. It has been suggested that there should be a permanent consultative joint committee. It has been suggested that there should be a committee from both Boards, who should have the administration of these grants. Then there is an advisory committee of the Treasury, which makes reports on behalf of the Board of Education to the Treasury in respect of the grants made to the various forms of higher education. Surely one or other of these plans might be adopted. But, if neither of them commends itself to the noble Earl or his advisers, there is yet another suggestion, and I am not sure that that is not the suggestion which may, perhaps, be productive of the best effect. After all, this matter of agricultural education is mainly one for county councils and local authorities, and I would venture to ask Lord Belper, as chairman of the County Councils Association, whether it would not be possible to get together a committee of those who are experts in the administration of agricultural education in their several areas, who might draw up some clear line of demarcation between the moneys which may properly pass through the hands of the Board of Agriculture and those which may properly pass through the hands of the Board of Education. I really do not care whether you appoint a committee, or what committee you appoint. What we want is to get more money in one way or another for the purposes of agricultural education, and our trouble is that while the Board of Agriculture, we believe, is bettor able to spend the money in the way which agriculturists wish, it is the Board of Education which has the money at its command. I cannot help thinking that when any impartial tribunal comes to consider this 703 question, they will be impressed by the fact that the Department whose duty it is to foster the industry of agriculture, should also be charged with the duty of fostering higher education in matters of agriculture. The relations between the Board and the farmers are of the most friendly character. I speak with the greatest possible respect of the Board of Education, and of the inspectors which that department employs, but somehow or other I cannot altogether believe that those distinguished classmen who come from Oxford and Cambridge can be quite as sympathic with the agriculturists of this country, as men who have been trained in practical agriculture, and have not neglected the advantages of chemical research and of practical agricultural industry. In the Blue-book to which attention has been called, there is a reference by a representative of the Board of Agriculture to a committee which I think owes its inception to the noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Duchy. It is a committee of the Wiltshire County Council. It is charged, not only with agricultural education, but with all the duties it properly can perform, that affect farmers and agriculture in the county. The farmers look upon it as their own committee, and I venture to think that a committee such as that, can do more good almost than any other department of a county council. This is what the representative of the Board of Education said of that committee—
A local authority has too much to do, and an agricultural committee charged with the duty of looking after all agricultural interests and education would be much better for that part of the work; but if these men in any area are segregated the work of general education is apt to suffer very seriously. To cut out the agricultural interests in any way from the region of general and secondary education in rural communities would, I consider, be a matter of gravest misfortune.That, I believe the noble Lord will say, is not the experience of the county of Wiltshire; and I venture to hope that it is in that direction we may look for some improvement in the organization of agricultural education. What the Board of Agriculture has done in the past is, I think, worthy of some praise and some credit. It has shown that it can organise these institutions. It is said by the Committee that, after all, we are not so very much behind foreign countries in 704 our institutions for agricultural education, and that the addition of a few of these institutions would furnish the country with sufficient collegiate centres. I cannot help thinking that a Department which has been successful to that extent is worthy of being trusted to go further. At this moment there is a great deal more interest being shown in the country generally in all that affects agriculture, and I trust that my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture will strike while the iron is hot. I earnestly hope that he will follow out the recommendations of the committee, and that he will do all that he can to persuade the Chancellor of the Exchequer to increase the amount — the miserable amount—placod at his disposal for the encouragement of agricultural education.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY (Lord FITZMAURICE)My Lords, I do not rise to continue the general discussion, nor to attempt to add to what has been said on behalf of the Government by my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture. I intervene merely to explain that the Agricultural Committee of the Wiltshire County Council has not the full powers which Paragraph 115 in the Report of Lord Reay's Committee might lead anyone who read it to think. I recommended in my evidence that those powers should be handed over to one committee. The actual fact is that the committee—it is a separate committee, not a sub-committee—not only does the work in question, but also deals with the Fertilizers and Feeding Stuffs Act. That is undoubtedly an important addition to their work. I gave it as my opinion, in my evidence, that it would be desirable to carry that further, and to hand over to the Agricultural Committee also the work of the Diseases of Animals Act, and Small Holdings and Allotments. I can certainly repeat what I said to the Departmental Committee, that the experiment of having such a committee has, so far as it has gone, been very successful, and if we could get further statutory powers, those additional subjects might with advantage be handed over to the committee. It is of very great advantage, from the point of view of administration, especially of education, that there should be a committee which the farmers of the county look to as their committee.
§ LORD BELPERMy Lords, I should like to support almost all that the noble Lord the Chairman of the Departmental Committee has said. I must also give credit to the noble Lord as being the most careful and painstaking chairman of a Committee it would be possible to find. The noble Lord gave every opportuity for discussion, and the unanimous opinions we expressed in our recommendations cannot be said to have been arrived at without the fullest possible deliberation. I think for the first time it has become apparent that the agricultural interests in the country are satisfied with the good work accomplished by the colleges. I have had some experience of this. We issued invitations to a large number of farmers to inspect our college and see for themselves what was being done. The result has been that farmers who were entirely opposed to the work before have expressed unqualified approval of the practical instruction given. That is a point which cannot be too strongly emphasised when we go to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and ask for more funds. If the agricultural interest are unanimous in pressing the Chancellor of the Exchequer to grant sufficient funds for the improvement of agricultural education, in order to put our farmers on an equality with those of other countries, I hardly think that any Government can refuse to accede to that request. The County Councils Association have passed unanimously a resolution approving of the main recommendations of the Departmental Committee. With regard to the appeal made to me by Lord Onslow, I can assure him that the County Councils Association will always be ready to do anything in their power to assist in a matter of this kind, especially if the co-operation does not involve any further expenditure out of the local rates. It is no idle observation in the Report of the Committee that it is impossible for county councils to find further sums themselves for this purpose. We are already overburdened with obligations placed upon us by Parliament, and it is obvious that the National Exchequer is the only source from which increased funds can be obtained for an improvement of agricultural education. I hope the sympathetic expressions of the noble Earl the President of the Board of Agriculture will not prove idle words, but that before long funds will be forthcoming, 706 not only to make the existing colleges more useful than they can be with their present limited means, but also to establish a really national system of agricultural education.
§ House adjourned at five minutes before Seven o'clock, till To-morrow, Six o'clock.