§ House in Committee (according to Order.)
§ LORD AVEBURYmoved an Amendment which he explained was word for 708 word taken from the unanimous Report of the Joint Committee of the two Houses presided over by Lord Crewe in 1903. The first recommendation was contained in the old Health Act but did not seem to he generally known, and it would, he thought, be convenient to repeat it. As regarded the other points, since his Amendment was placed on the Paper the Report of the Departmental Committee on the Local Government Board of Municipal Amendments had been published, and he was glad to see that all the points were recommended by the Departmental Committee. He understood that the Report was now under the consideration of the Board, and in these circumstances, if the noble Lord who represented the Department wished it, he would not press the matter for the moment, but would content himself with expressing a hope that the Board would adopt the recommendations of the Committee. Before sitting down there was one other point on which he wished to say a word. Now that municipalities carried on so many and such important commercial undertakings, there was a strong feeling that the auditors should have some training as accountants. Legal knowledge was no doubt important, but it was not all-sufficient. Many chambers of commerce were strongly of opinion that the Local Government Board auditors should, at any rate in such cases, have had training as accountants, and while the Board were studying the subject he hoped they would also take this into consideration.
Amendment moved—
In page 8, line 5, after '1888' to insert the words 'The auditor shall have the right of access to all such papers, books, accounts, vouchers, sanctions for loans, and so forth, as are necessary for his examination and certificate.'He should be entitled to require from officers of the authority such information and explanation as may be necessary for the performance of his duties.He should certify—
- that he has found the accounts in order or otherwise as the case may be;
- that separate accounts of all trading undertakings have been kept and that every charge which each ought to bear has been duly debited;
- that in his opinion the accounts issued present a true and correct view of the transactions and results of trading (if any) for the period under investigation;
- that due provision has been made out of revenue for the repayment of
709 loans, that all items of receipts and expenditure and all known liabilities have been brought into account, and that the value of all assets has in all cases been fairly stated."—(Lord Avebury.)
§ * Lord ALLENDALEsaid he was much obliged to the noble Lord for intimating that he would not press his Amendment. The matter was under the consideration of the Local Government Board, and he had been desired by the President to say that he was giving his careful attention to it with the advice at his disposal, but he wanted more time fully to consider the whole question. The first point in the Amendment was covered by the provisions in Section 247 (5) of the Public Health Act, 1875, which was applied to the audit of accounts of the corporation by Article X. (1) of the Provisional Order. The second point was also covered by the before-mentioned subsection, which provided a penalty in the case of any person neglecting or refusing to appear at the audit, and to make and sign a declaration as to the correctness of his accounts.
As to the points on which the auditor should certify, the first was practically covered by the auditor's certificate at the foot of the financial statement. If the accounts were not in order it would be the duty of the auditor to report the fact in his report to the corporation, which he was required to make, under the provisions of Section 247 (10) of the Public Health Act, 1875, within fourteen days after the completion of the audit. As to the next point, if the trading undertakings were carried on under the provisions of local Acts, the local Act generally required that separate accounts should be kept. The financial statement to be submitted at the audit required the transactions in respect of trading undertakings—i.e., tramways, railways, water, gas, and electric light—to be shown separately, and it therefore followed that separate accounts must be kept. As to the third point on which the auditor was to certify, he would point out that this Amendment seemed to deal with the abstract of the accounts issued by the local authority under the provisions of Subsection (10) of Section 247 of the Public Health Act, 1875. This abstract was issued quite independently of the auditors and some time after the audit had been completed. 710 With regard to the fourth and last point, the financial statement always provided for showing the repayment of loans out of revenue. The questions as to all receipts and expenditure and known liabilities being brought into account and the value of all assets being fairly stated, were matters which had been fully dealt with in the Report of the Departmental Committee on Accounts of Local Authorities. This Report had only just been presented and had not yet been fully considered by the Board. He assured the noble Lord that the whole matter was receiving the consideration of the Local Government Board in dealing with the Report of the Departmental Committee, and in these circumstances he hoped the Amendment would not be pressed.
§ LORD AVEBURYsaid that in the circumstances he would not press the Amendment, but he hoped that the very excellent recommendations of the Depart mental Committee would be adopted by the President of the Local Government Board.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Standing Committee negatived; then (Standing Order No. XXIX. having been suspended), Amendments reported. Bill read 3a, and passed, and returned to the Commons.