HL Deb 23 October 1906 vol 163 cc26-9
*THE EARL OF MAYO

My Lords, I rise to draw the attention of His Majesty's Government to the Order of the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction for Ireland, dated 29th May, 1906, concerning the importation of horses, asses, and mules; and to ask for information thereon.

The Order was made in consequence of the prevalence of glanders in England. A great many of us feel that it is quite right that the ordinary importation of horses, asses, and mules should be restricted, but we should like to see thoroughbred brood mares exempted from the Order. This disease exists chiefly in two large towns—London and Glasgow—and your Lordships, of course, know that thoroughbred mares are not kept in. towns and are therefore not likely to contract the disease. There is in this Order an exemption applying to horses, asses, and mules belonging to the Army. Our experience in this matter in Ireland is an unfortunate one, for we had that terrible disease, epizootic lymphangitis, introduced into Ireland by the Army horses. We take exception to Army horses being exempted when we are compelled, in getting horses from England, to go before a magistrate, sign a declaration that the horse is perfectly healthy, and pay a veterinary surgeon a guinea for a certificate that the animal is free from disease. The large breeders and those who wish to send thoroughbred mares to sires in Ireland resent this vexatious provision, and there is the danger that in consequence the mares will not be sent to sires in Ireland.

During the last five or six years London has contributed 75 par cent. of the reported cases of glanders in Great Britain. It is distinctly a metropolitan disease, and if it were stamped out in London and the great towns it would most likely disappear altogether. The obstacle in the way of effective measures is the want of sufficient money to compensate the owners of horses suffering from glanders and to induce them to submit their horses to the malin test. Deputations have waited upon successive Presidents of the Board of Agriculture urging them to deal with this question, and the County Council of London have spent large sums of money upon it. But the money that has been forthcoming is not sufficient.

In the case of pluro-pneumonia, for many years futile attempts were made to stamp it out, but in 1890 the Pluro-Pneumonia Act was passed. Animals suffering from the disease were slaughtered, and three-fourths of their value was given for all animals that had even been in contact with diseased beasts. Thus the disease was exterminated; and if pluro-pneumonia could be entirely wiped out in this way it is only reasonable to suppose that, were sufficient money forthcoming to enable proper precautions to be taken, the country could be rendered free from this very dangerous disease. I hope the noble Lord who will reply on behalf of His Majesty's Government will hold out some hope that pressure will be brought to bear upon the Treasury to provide the Department of Agriculture with sufficient money to deal with this horrible disease which attacks horses in large towns. I would also ask him whether he can hold out some hope that thoroughbred mares, which are not kept in towns, will be exempted from the Order.

LORD DENMAN

My Lords, the noble Lord has dwelt on what is in Ireland a very important subject—namely, horse breeding. Most of your Lordships will agree as to the great importance of horse breeding to Ireland, both as regards quality and quantity. The figures I have in my hand show that there are approximately 900,000 horses in Ireland to-day; that the value of the export trade in these horses probably reaches £1,000,000 annually; that 30,700 horses were exported and 6,000 horses imported in one year; and that 17,023 asses were exported and only seventy-eight imported. Naturally, it is the duty of the Government to safeguard horse breeding in Ireland. The fact that thirty cases of glanders were reported to the Department of Agriculture last year, while the annual average of the previous ten years had been seven, showed the necessity for some steps being taken. The Inspectors of the Department of Agriculture in Ireland examined into the cause, and came to the conclusion that the increase was due to the importation of horses of an inferior and partly worn-out class, gathered, many of them, from infected districts. Owing to the dispersion of tramway and omnibus studs in England numbers of these horses were sent over to Ireland and sold at low prices to the farmers there. This contributed to an increase of glanders, and we were therefore obliged to take steps to have imported animals examined by veterinary surgeons on entering the country.

Your Lordships know what a terrible disease glanders is, and how very difficult it is to stamp out when once it becomes prevalent. I had some experience of it myself in the Remount Department in South Africa, and I know how much it is to be dreaded by all owners of horses. No doubt it is possible that under the Regulations which have been drawn up by the Department of Agriculture certain cases of hardship may arise, but I would point out that to make the exceptions asked for by the noble Earl on behalf of thoroughbred stock would lead to the advance of other claims and give rise to difficulties and complaints. The Department of Agriculture has no jurisdiction over Army horses. I hope I have said enough to show that the Department of Agriculture has only drawn up prudent and careful regulations to prevent the spread of this disease in Ireland.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (Earl CARRINGTON)

My Lords, the noble Earl opposite and my noble friend behind me have explained this matter so well that there is very little for mo to say. But, with regard to the suggestion of the noble Earl as to the exemption of thoroughbred stock, I would only say that I must reserve my judgment on that point until I can consider the recommendations that may emanate from a conference among persons engaged in the horse breeding industry. I will not fail to bring the noble Lord's suggestion before that conference, and he can be certain that it will receive full consideration.

The noble Earl is quite right in his statement that glanders exists principally in London and Glasgow, and he proceeded to ask why His Majesty's Government could not take the matter at once in hand and stamp out the disease in the same way as other cattle diseases have been stamped out in the past. I hope the noble Earl will not think me discourteous if I call his attention to the fact that the position of the finances of the country is very different now from that existing at the time to which the noble Earl alluded, and I must plead that this is not entirely the fault of those who sit on this side of the House. Noble Lords opposite will, I think, be willing to share the responsibility. Up to six years ago very little was known of this disease in England. In the last six years, however, it has increased very considerably, but during the whole of that time noble Lords opposite did very little in providing money to assist in stamping it out.

If I could secure £25,000 a year for three years I am assured by the experts that the Board of Agriculture would be perfectly able to stamp out this dread disease, which is dangerous not only to horses but to human beings as well. As regards the action taken in Ireland we have no reason to complain. Something like 27,000 horses are exported annually from Ireland into England. They also have a magnificent foreign trade. There is no such thing as farcy or glanders existing in Ireland, and Ireland has its great foreign trade, of which naturally it is very jealous, simply because it has a clean bill of health. I can assure the noble Earl that I am doing all I can to soften the heart of the Treasury, but until money is forthcoming the Board cannot in justice and in equity contest the right of the Irish Department to protect the health of Irish cattle.