§ Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a."—(The Chairman of Committees.)
LORD KINNAIRDMy Lords, I rise to ask whether the noble Earl who has just moved the Third Reading of this Bill will consent to adjourn, it for a few days in order that the House may be in possession of the facts concerning its provisions. The Bill is, I believe, a reversal of the whole policy of Parliament, which decided in the past that London should be divided into districts for the purpose of the supply of electricity, that the undertakers should be under statutory obligation to supply any consumer for any purpose, and that the undertakings of companies should be purchasable by the local authorities on terms which seem rather onerous on the companies and which do not sufficiently allow for the recoupment of the money invested in those companies. The supply was necessarily at first mainly given for lighting, and it is only within about the 821 last three years that a demand for power has sprung up. This demand the existing undertakers have met, and they are fully alive to the need for a cheap supply of power to manufacturers. They are able to supply all the power which can be required at low rates, and if they were given the same privileges which this new company are asking, they could supply at quite as low a rate as that company could do.
The new company seeks to be relieved of all the conditions which are imposed on existing undertakings, such us the London County Council's Building Acts, restriction of area, prohibition to supply outside that area or of combination, and, in the case of companies, liability to purchase, and to compete under these very favourable conditions with existing companies who are under all these disabilities. If any relaxation in the conditions hitherto imposed by Parliament is to be made surely it should be granted to existing undertakings rather than to a new company; the more so as many millions of money have been invested in these undertakings on the conditions laid down by Parliament and in the belief that those conditions would not be altered to their detriment. To relax them in favour of a new company, and to authorise it to compete with existing undertakings which are still bound by the old conditions, is not treatment which investors might fairly expect from Parliament. The term of some of these companies is a short one, and your Lordships can readily understand that to raise money for a few years with uncertainty as to what may happen at the end of the period is a serious matter for shareholders and those who administer these companies. Under these circumstances, and as this is an entirely new proposal, I venture to ask your Lordships to allow the Bill to be adjourned for the further consideration of its provisions, and not leave it to the other House to protect the interests involved.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Earl of ONSLOW); My Lords, I hardly know what object could be attained by the postponement of the Third Reading of this Bill. This is a 822 very complicated and difficult subject, and one which has been under the consideration of a Committee of your Lordships' House for a period extending over six weeks. The Committee was presided over by the noble Earl opposite, Lord Camperdown, and I do not think I shall be betraying any confidence when I say that the opinion was universally expressed, by both those who promoted the Bill and those who opposed it, that the Committee and the noble Earl himself gave the most careful and attentive consideration to the whole matter. I do not think your Lordships could with advantage reconsider the principle of this Bill without hearing the evidence and counsel in the same way that the Committee did. This Bill involves a very large sum of money, and I think it would be very unfortunate if your Lordships were to do anything which would have the effect of preventing the Bill being considered in another place in time for it either to be passed into law or to be rejected, after consideration, during the present session of Parliament. I am sure the noble Lord will concur with me when I say that the Bill is likely to receive the greatest possible attention in the other House. I myself had given an undertaking to the promoters that the Bill should be put down for Third Reading to-night in order that it might go to the other House and receive early consideration there; and I venture to think that after the patient hearing which has been given to it by a Committee of your Lordships' House, and after all the money that has been expended upon it, the least we can do is to give an opportunity for the Bill to be thoroughly thrashed out in the other House in time, if it is approved of, for it to become law this session. In the circumstances I regret that I cannot accede to the request of my noble friend.
LORD AYEBURYMy Lords, it appears to me that the speech which, has just been made by the Lord Chairman of Committees supplied an argument in support of my noble friend Lord Kinnaird's suggestion. This is a very intricate and difficult question; the Bill has been before a Committee of this House for a long time; yet it is placed on the Paper at a 823 moment's notice, and we are asked to give the Bill a Third Reading without being afforded any opportunity of seeing the Bill in its present form, of reading the evidence and examining its provisions. There is strong feeling out of doors that the old companies are placed at a very great disadvantage by this Bill. My noble friend Lord Camperdown, however, who presided over the Committee of your Lordships' House which considered this Bill, has been good enough to inform me privately that in his judgment the objections made by Lord Kinnaird have been met, and I hope he will say a few words, so that the House may know exactly how the matter stands.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNMy Lords, I certainly did not intend to address your Lordships on this matter, but as the noble Lord behind me (Lord Avebury) has called upon me to do so, I do not mind saying a word or two with regard to the case of the existing companies. I believe Lord Kinnaird's complaint refers chiefly to the existing lighting companies which hold their powers under statute, and are liable to be purchased at the end of a term of years. I do not think it would be possible to go into the whole case here, and I am sure your Lordships would not be obliged to me if I were to give you even a short resume of the proceedings which, as the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees stated, occupied six weeks before the Committee, and I think we had something like thirty or forty counsel generally present. I will only say that, so far as the statutory companies are concerned, their case is met by a special clause in the Bill; and if my noble friend who raised the question to-day and the noble Lord behind me will discuss the matter with me privately, I shall be very glad to go into the question with them in detail. I hardly think your Lordships would be interested if I were to do so at the present time. But this I can say, that so far as the companies are concerned the Committee paid very special regard to their case; so much so that they called the attention of the promoters to the fact that they had not failed to observe that, without 824 some protection, there would be considerable hardship done to the companies whose undertakings were purchasable under statute, and a clause was devised and put forward which the Committee thought sufficiently met that hardship. I observe that when noble Lords oppose private Bills which have been before Committees of your Lordships' House, they do not, generally speaking, go to the Chairman or to any of the members of the Committee; they go to some of the opponents who have had their case heard and been defeated, and they take as gospel all that those opponents say to them. If we were to attempt to meet a case so stated it would necessitate a very long speech; but I hope your Lordships will consider that I have said sufficient to show that, in regard to this Bill, the interests of the statutory companies were very carefully considered.
LORD KINNAIRDMy Lords, it was my intention to move the rejection of this Bill, but I did not think that course would be respectful to the strong Committee which considered the Bill. I may inform the noble Earl that the companies are not quite satisfied with the clause which the Committee seem to think protects them. After what has been said, however, I will not take up your Lordships' time further. I have no doubt that in another place the interests of the companies will be looked after and an Amendment inserted which will adequately protect them.
§ On Question, Bill read 3a, and passed; and sent to the Commons.