§ THE LORD BISHOP OF WINCHESTER rose "To ask the First Lord of the Admiralty—(1) As to the system upon which the dockyard men are being discharged from the Portsmouth Dockyards; and (2) whether it is true that the 'St. Vincent' training ship in Portsmouth harbour is to be given up." He said: At this hour of the evening I shall say only a very few words in asking these Questions of which I have given notice, and I would apologise for having given notice to the First Lord of the Admiralty at a time when he was ill. I was quite unaware of his illness, or I would have refrained from putting the Questions. I venture to bring to your Lordships' notice the position of those who are now being discharged from employment in His Majesty's dockyards. This question was brought up two or three months ago, I believe, in the other House, and on June 7th Mr. Pretyman gave an Answer in which he stated that there were about 1,000 of these employees to be discharged from Portsmouth. We are now told that there are to be over 2,000 discharged at Portsmouth, while proportionate numbers will have to be discharged from Chatham and Devonport. Very naturally the result is a state of intense depression and a sense of grievance, more especially when those discharges are apparently conducted in a strangely capricious manner. I say "capricious manner," because the workmen seem quite unable to discover from the way in which the discharges are conducted whether any sort of account is taken of length of service, goodness of character, or skill and ability.
§ I will not weary your Lordships, but I must give one or two instances. There is the case of a smith, aged thirty-seven, who has been in the Government service in. the dockyards some eighteen years. He recently received notice to quit, and the very same week he received notice that his wages had been raised by two 55 shillings a week. Complaint was brought before the authorities on. Behalf of this most deserving man whose character was quite superlatively excellent, and the authorities made reply that it was indeed a very hard case, but that there were numerous cases of the same land and no exception could be made. Three days ago another instance was brought to public notice in one of the evening papers in Portsmouth—the case of a man who had been twenty-five years in the dockyard, who had worked hard and who had borne a good character the whole time. He asked the reason why he was discharged, and he was told that fifteen years ago he had been seen smoking in the dockyard.
§ My Lords, I have selected only two out of a very large number of instances which I have in my hand, and which I desire to bring before your Lordships' notice for the purpose of indicating that too little discrimination and consideration is being shown in the dismissal of men who have been engaged for the better part of their lifetime in His Majesty's service in the dockyard; men bearing the very best characters, and who have shown by their energy and workmanlike ability that they deserve well of the nation. These are the men who are being dismissed, and who, in consequence, will be thrown out of employment and become a portion ct the large number of unemployed in the country, at the very time that the nation is selling off a lot of old ships that are being bought up, I believe, by foreign nations, to be broken up by foreign labourers. I should have thought that it would have been possible at least to have retained those old ships, so that our men might be given labour and work rather than that they should be cast upon the rates of our great seaport towns. I very much hope that a reply will be forthcoming which will show that there is perhaps more system and more discrimination being exercised in the melancholy work of discharging some of our best workmen than appears to be the case at first sight.
§ Then, my Lords, the other Question refers to the remoured abandonment of the training ship "St. Vincent." The "St. 56 Vincent" is a training ship with several hundred lads on board in Portsmouth Harbour. The lads—I have seen them myself—are well trained, well taught, well exercised, and they are in the enjoyment of excellent health, like the lads on board the "Impregnable" and the "Lion" at Devonport. I am told that the "St. Vincent" is about to be abandoned and the lads transferred to an institution at Harwich—that is, that the nation will have all the lads who are being prepared for the Navy collected in one great institution at Harwich. We are told that it is for the sake of their health and morals. I am not sure whether for the sake of their health it will be a good thing to have all lads who are being prepared for the Navy in one great, institution. It is far better to be exposed to epidemics in different centres than for all the lads to be exposed to epidemics in one great centre. So far as morals and discipline are concerned the same thing applies. If you taint a great institution containing 2,000 or 3,000 boys, greater harm will be done than if you try to exercise control in different local centres containing 700, 800, or 900 lads. At the same time at the small local centres there is a better chance of personal control and supervision. I very much trust that the suggested policy has not been finally decided upon, especially in a place like Portsmouth, which is one of the finest recruiting grounds that our country possesses for the Navy, where any lad who is being brought up for the Navy witnesses every day that which will inspire in him enthusiasm and hope for his future career.
THE MARQUESS OF LINLITHG0WMy Lords, if the right rev. Prelate will kindly inform mo afterwards of any individual cases of hardship or unfairness which may have been brought before him, I am commissioned to say that they shall have the careful consideration of the Admiralty. With reference to the first part of the Question I am desired to say that the discharges now being carried out at Portsmouth and other naval yards are necessitated by the reduction in the amount of work, principally repair work, required to be done on His Majesty's ships. This reduction is due to several causes, the 57 chief of which are (1) the removal from the list of the Navy of a great number of ships which otherwise would have needed extensive repairs to maintain them in a state of efficiency; (2) the manning of the ships in reserve by nucleus crews, who themselves perform the ordinary work of keeping the ships ready for immediate service and carry out considerable repairs. Under the previous system a great deal of dockyard work was necessary on the ships before they could be regarded as ready for war. (3) The amount of work done in the last two or three years has been greatly in excess of the normal, partly owing to the large repairs to machinery and boilers necessitated by the difficulties which attended the first introduction of water-tube boilers. I may further say that an important Committee on Naval Establishments has been at work during most of this year, and has investigated the whole question of dockyard work. The Report of this Committee has not yet been received, but it will necessarily affect very greatly the problem of the work to be done in future in the Royal yards, and it is impossible to say before the Report has been considered by the Board of Admiralty whether any further large discharges will be necessary, or to give any limit of time for their completion. I may add that the Admiralty have the fullest sympathy with the individual cases where hardship has occurred. The general rule is, subject to the discretion of the admiral-superintendents of the yards, that those men who have the longer service have their services retained as long as is found possible, but due regard must also be had to the necessity of adjusting numbers between trades to meet the requirements of the service. It must also be remembered that the Admiralty, while it cannot give permanent work, gives constant employment—that is, constant while the employment lasts. With regard to the second Question, on the completion of the new training establishment at Shotley, boys will be transferred there from certain training ships, and among these the "St. Vincent," but no definite orders have been given on the subject up to the present.