§ *LORD BRASSEYMy Lords, I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty what progress has been made in the enrolment and training of a reserve force for the 263 Navy in Canada and Australia. I may remind your Lordships that a promise was made some years ago by Lord Goschen to a deputation of the Empire League that the subject would be taken in hand. Having had the honour of introducing the deputation, I am anxious to know what progress has been made. We have made great efforts in recent years to push forward new construction. We have provided crews mainly by increasing the permanent force. Our system ensures a high standard of efficiency; but we do not regard the Navies of foreign Powers as inefficient because they depend more than we do on well-trained reserves. Their system has advantages. It gives greater power of expansion, and admits of larger appropriations to shipbuilding. Ourexpenditure on ships in commission is estimated at £13,388,000. This is an excess of no less than £7,633,000 over the combined expenditure of France and Germany. On new construction our expenditure, large as it is, falls short of the combined expenditure of the two Powers by some £700,000. It is desirable to draw nearer to foreign administrations. If we could depend more on reserves it would help us. This brings me to the immediate subject of my Question. In the colonies we have ample resources for raising reserves. Turning to Canada, the seafaring men of the maritime provinces have been estimated at 200,000. There are no serious administrative difficulties. It has been reported that a beginning has been made, that men have been embarked in the Fleet, and that the experiment is a success. I should be glad to hear from the noble Earl the First Lord that that report could be confirmed. Australia cannot vie with Canada, but the number of seafaring men has been estimated at 30,000. and they are of a most reliable class. The high rates of pay in the Australian coasting trade call for modifications in the regulations as laid down for the reserve at home. When a communication was received from the Admiralty under Lord Goschen, proposing the enrolment of naval reserves, the subject was referred by the Premiers to the naval commandants. Their recommendations would, I confidently believe, 264 have met local conditions without sacrificing efficiency. With all details the able Commander-in-Chief on the Australian station is fully competent to deal. My main object is to press that the colonial naval reserves should not be neglected. A naval reserve force has been in existence in Australia for many years. They have been full of zeal, but have had no opportunity of doing serviee. When troubles occurred in China some hundreds volunteered, and had the honour of serving ashore under Sir Edward Seymour. The "Protector," the only available vessel in the local flotilla, was offered, and promptly despatched to join the squadron. The seamen of Australia are at least as anxious as the forces on shore to aid the Empire.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (The Earl of SELBORNE)The question raised by the noble Lord is largely bound up with the number of ships it is necessary to keep in permanent commission. That the noble Lord knows well; and his comparison of the difference in the amount of money which is expended in France and Germany and in this country for the maintenance of ships in commission can only be judged according to the circumstances and conditions which each country has to meet. We do not keep a large fleet in commission for the pleasure of the thing, but because it is an imperial necessity. We are obliged to do it partly for the adequate defence of these islands, but also largely in connection with the peculiar character of the British Empire. There is an amount of imperial police work, if I may use that description, going on in every station all over the world, which to a large and increasing extent governs the number of the ships that we have to keep permanently in commission. Therefore, this question of reserve, and the proportion they should bear to active service ratings, is inextricably mixed up with the number of ships we have to keep in commission; and, the circumstances of countries being dissimilar, no fair parallel can be drawn from the amount of money France and Germany spend upon keeping ships in commission and what we spend. Notwithstanding that, I entirely agree with the noble Lord in his desire to develop the naval reserves of this Empire. But he 265 has brought this question forward when I am singularly unable to speak on the subject, for two reasons. The first is that the whole subject of naval reserves has been referred to a Committee, of which Sir Edward Grey is the Chairman, and which has not yet reported. The second is that this question of naval reserves in connection with the colonies is coming forward for discussion in the Conference of Colonial Premiers which is now taking place. I am, therefore, debarred from dealing with the subject at present. I can only say, in conclusion, that we have tried to establish a branch of the Royal Naval Reserve on the coast of Newfoundland, composed of Newfoundland fishermen. One hundred of these fishermen have been embarked—fifty last year and fifty this year; and so a branch of the Naval Reserve has been fairly started, and your Lordships will be glad to learn that the reports of the officers in whose ships those men have embarked are in every sense satisfactory. They speak in the warmest terms of the men's aptitude for training and the excellence of the material.
§ House adjourned at ten minutes before Six o'clock, till Tomorrow, half-past Ten o' clock.