HL Deb 16 July 1901 vol 97 cc569-73
THE EARL OF MEATH

My Lords, I rise to ask His Majesty's Government whether the Commissioners of His Majesty's Works and Public Buildings would open to the public, and furnish with seats under or around the trees therein, a portion of the enclosure in Broad Sanctuary which lies to the south of

seen the plans. I do not know whether the House of Commons Committee have seen them, but I do not see why the Lords should not put an oar in as well as the Commons. At any rate, I cite the case of the Admiralty buildings—at which my noble friend turns up the whites of his eyes and holds up his hands with horror—I cite it in proof of the result of not doing what you are asked in common sense to do now, and what, according to Professor Aitchison, has been done in the case of all the best buildings since the time of Justinian. The Government are apparently so confident of their own views of architecture that they will hear of none of these things, and will not give the nation a chance of knowing what they will have to pay for.

On Question, their Lordships divided. Contents, 41: Non-Contents, 20.

Canning's statue. This enclosure is one which is well known to your Lordships, for you can never come to this House without passing by it. It is a small enclosure in which is situated the statue of the famous statesman Canning. The desire of myself and those who feel with me is, not that the whole of this enclosure should be thrown open to the public, but only a very small portion of it, namely, that portion of the enclosure which faces the Abbey. In this enclosure there are very fine large trees and some grass which need not be in the least injured by the public if they are admitted to this small portion to which I have alluded. I think there are some houses which have rights over a certain portion of this enclosure, and I believe that His Majesty's Government are bound in some way or other not to interfere with the privacy and the amenities of the tenants of those houses, but the throwing open of the portion to which I refer will not in the least interfere with those rights.

My Lords, this may appear a very small matter, and so it is to a certain extent; but, on the other hand, this little place is in the very centre of one of the most interesting and historic positions in the kingdom. It is the Mecca, we may say, of all the educated subjects of His Majesty from all parts of the world. They all flock to see that venerable and ancient abbey with its historic associations, and that even more ancient church of St. Margaret's, with which Parliament is so closely connected, and to get the best view obtainable of the Houses of Parliament and the river in the distance. There is a large traffic passing to and fro past the Houses of Parliament, past the site upon which we have lately been voting, and it is not possible at present for visitors to quietly enjoy the architectural beauties and interesting associations around them. There are a few seats in the centre of a very stiff garden which is to be found just opposite this site, but upon a hot day, such as we are having now, there is absolutely no shade. My hope and desire is that His Majesty's Government will allow a few seats to be placed under the shady trees which are to be found in this enclosure. Some years ago I drew the attention of the Government to this very spot, but in a most extraordinary way they seem to have entirely misunderstood the whole purport of my question and the desire of those who feel with me. Because Canning's statue was mentioned, it seemed to be the idea of Government that the wish of those who spoke through me was that Canning's statue should be taken out of the garden and thrown into the roadway. They threw back the railing by placing it some four feet at the back of the statue, with the natural result, as anybody would have perceived, that it became a public nuisance because there was a certain small space open to the public and hidden from the public view. My hope to-day is that a common-sense view will be taken of this matter by the Government. My noble friend, who has just carried the House by a very large majority in favour of a similar question, has said something which I am not going to repeat, not very complimentary to the common sense of some portions of the Government; but I do say this, that to throw Canning's statue into the street is a most extraordinary act, and one that no one with common sense could have been guilty of. It is perfectly clear, I hope, that I do not wish that done. What I am suggesting is not that the statue should be interfered with in the smallest degree, but there is absolutely no reason, so far as I can see, why seats should not be placed in a portion of that enclosure, and those who visit these famous spots should be able to sit there in peace and comfort and quiet, and enjoy the beauties, and think over the historic associations connected with all that is around them. I trust that His Majesty's Government will consent to something of this sort.

Before I sit down I should like to express the hope that His Majesty's. Government will not leave it to private individuals always to suggest these improvements. We pay officials and we place in authority persons in whom we believe. It is their duty to think over how to improve the metropolis, and to do what they can to help the comfort and facilitate the amenities of His Majesty's subjects, and that it should be left to individuals, as it always is, to suggest these improvements, is not, I think, complimentary to those who are placed in authority over us.

THE EARL OF PEMBROKE

In reply to the noble Lord, I am glad to be able to say that the First Commissioner of Works is disposed to view this suggestion favourably, and will endeavour to give effect to it, but he desires to reserve to himself some liberty as to the details of the arrangement which the noble Lord has, I think, incidentally referred to. There are some difficulties with respect to the rights of the owners of houses, and also as to the time when the change can be introduced, as some expenditure will be necessary, for which provision will have to be made. That is the answer of the First Commissioner of Works, and I know from my own personal observation that if the First Commissioner of Works can see his way to carry out this suggestion he will be very glad to do so.

EARL SPENCER

There is another matter that I should just like to refer to. I do not know whether the noble Earl has noticed lately when he has been passing this place that the great trees in this enclosure have grown to such an extent that the statue of Canning is almost disappearing from view. People sometimes are very much afraid of cutting down trees, but I am not at all sure that cutting down one or two trees there would not improve the trees which remain and also bring forward again the statue, which now is rapidly becoming invisible.

THE EARL OF PEMBROKE

This question arose last session, I think, and I immediately communicated with my right hon. friend, and the trees were trimmed at once. I think it is a question that should not be decided hastily as to whether the practice of trimming the trees should be continued or whether the trees should be cut down. You can cut down a tree easily but you cannot put it back again. I think the noble Lord who introduced this question just now would be very sorry to see any of these trees taken away altogether; the very thing the public want most is a little shade here. However, I will communicate with my right hon. friend, and have the trees trimmed at once.

THE EARL OF MEATH

I thank His Majesty's Government for their favourable answer, and I quite feel with the noble Lord who has just sat down that it would be a pity to cut the trees down. I should also express the hope that great care will be taken if any are lopped. Lopping is absolutely necessary in some cases, but I am sorry to say that a great many of the authorities in this metropolis—I do not allude to the Government—lop in the most unscientific manner, with the result that the trees are spoilt permanently. I thank the Government for their favourable reply.

House adjourned at a quarter before Six of the clock, to Thursday next, half-past Ten of the clock.