VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNMy Lords, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any of the officials employed in the Far Eastern Department of the Foreign Office have at any time served in China, Japan, or His Majesty's colonies in the Far East, and, if so, what was the nature of those services.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE)My Lords, in answer to my noble friend, I have to say that none of the officials employed in the Far Eastern Department of the Foreign Office have served either in China or Japan, or His Majesty's colonies in the Far East. I do not think I misinterpret the purport of my noble friend's question when I say it is apparently intended to suggest that there must be something very imperfect in the organisation of the 245 Foreign Office, when the Far Eastern Department does not contain officials having the experience to which my noble friend's question points. The idea which he suggests is an attractive one, but I doubt whether he has considered how very difficult it would be to give effect to it in practice. You might, I suppose, whenever troublesome questions arose in any part of the world, call up to the Foreign Office the best expert that you could find, having experience of the affairs of that particular part of the world, but I do not think your Ambassadors or Ministers would be very grateful to you if at such a time you took away from them their right-hand men and called them up to serve in the Foreign Office. My noble friend may think that the object can be achieved in another way, and that it might be arranged that in each department of the Foreign Office there should be officials who have passed a certain part of their career in service in the various parts of the world with which each department of the Foreign Office is particularly concerned. My Lords, that would not be at all an easy arrangement to carry out. It would lead to a continual repatriation of our diplomatists, followed by a corresponding expatriation of our Foreign Office clerks, and the dislocation that would arise would be inconvenient to all concerned. But, my Lords, I am very far indeed from underrating the necessity of having recourse to the advice of persons possessing locally-acquired knowledge, and I think I ought to say, in the first place, that the adviser to whom the Secretary of State naturally looks for local experience is the Minister or the Ambassador at the head of the embassy or legation in connection with which any particular difficulty may have arisen. I should be very sorry to admit, particularly in these days when the Foreign Office is in constant communication by the telegraph wire with its representatives abroad, that we should go behind the backs of those representatives and rely on experts called in ad hoc to advise the Foreign Office. But it is not only upon the embassies and legations that we are dependent. We make it a rule, so far as possible, to call into our councils any persons possessing local experience who 246 may be available at the time. At this particular moment, when we have extremely difficult negotiations—which no doubt my noble friend has in his mind—proceeding in China, we have had the advantage of calling into our councils several gentlemen eminently qualified to give us advice. We have, for example, at this moment in this country Sir Claude MacDonald, whose name I need only mention to convince my noble friend that we could not have a more expert and a better qualified adviser than he is; there is also Mr. Cockburn, who was for some time Chinese Secretary at Peking, and who came home to recruit his health, which suffered, I am afraid, a great deal during the siege of the Legations. Amongst other gentlemen who have been within reach within the last few months are Mr. Brenan, Consul General at Shanghai, and Mr. Hopkins, the Consul at Chifu. I may also mention Mr. Jordan, our Minister at Korea, who was for a long long time employed at the Peking Legation. Besides these official persons, we are constantly in the habit of keeping in communication with the mercantile and financial associations interested in the affairs of the Far East. We have been in touch with the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank, and with the China Association, the representatives of which have been, I am glad to say, always ready to impart to us the valuable knowledge which they possess. I hope I have said enough to show my noble friend that we do not differ from him in principle, although we are not able to agree with what I understand to be his suggestion as to the best means of acquiring the advice of these local experts to whose opinions he, as we do, attaches very great importance.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNI have to thank the noble Marquess for his courteous answer. With reference to the methods employed by His Majesty's Government for obtaining the best advice, I have at this moment no remarks to offer; but it does seem extra ordinary that in the office from which advice is sought on matters concerning the Far East there is no official who has served either in China, Japam 247 or His Majesty's colonies in the Far East. I think—
§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (The Earl of HALSBURY)I cannot help saying that we are getting extremely irregular in this House. The noble Lord has no right of reply. The rules of debate are becoming so absolutely departed from, and there is no saying to what extent the practice may go, that I feel it my duty to point out that the noble Lord is entirely out of order.
§ EARL SPENCERI agree with the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack that there has been a tendency to fall into the irregular practice of raising a debate on an answer to a question. Another irregularity is that of referring to speeches made in the House of Commons. There have been not only quotations from such speeches, but to-night the noble Earl the First Lord of the Admiralty has answered a speech in the House of Commons, and this may possibly lead to representations in another place upon the irregularity.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNI apologise for my irregularity. I am not satisfied with the reply of the noble Marquess, and will take a future opportunity of drawing attention to it.