INDIAN FAMINE—ADVANCES TO HYOTS. (Hansard, 14 May 1900)

LORD SANDHURST

My Lords, I beg to ask the Under Secretary for India whether it is intended that the advances to the Indian ryots suffering from famine mentioned by the Secretary of State for India in a speech reported in The Times of 10th May shall be by way of loan or gift. This question is a very direct one and admits of a very direct reply; but as I have just returned from the Bombay Presidency, where undoubtedly the famine is extremely bad, perhaps your Lordships will allow mo to give an explanation in a word or two as to the reasons which actuated me in interrogating the noble Earl. A few days ago, a number of friends of mine were so good as to give me a complimentary dinner on my return from Bombay, and in making a short speech I ventured to suggest, speaking for myself alone, that if the resources of charity were deemed insufficient possibly some grant might be made by either the Homo Government or the Government of India in aid of certain famine-stricken ryots. In the course of the evening Lord George Hamilton made a brief speech, in which he used these words— There was, however, one portion of work which the charitable funds had done which he thought might be undertaken by Government if it became necessary to do so. A large portion of those funds in the past had been devoted to making advances to the ryot and the cultivator, and so had enabled him to buy seed and stock, that he might once more, when the famine was over, be set upon his legs. That was a duty which he thought the Government might legitimately undertake, and he had already been in communication with the Indian Government in order that they might, if necessary, supplement any deficiency which the contributions in this country might render necessary. As Lord George Hamilton expressed the idea that any funds to be granted might be granted in the same way as they were from charitable funds, I assumed that the funds so to be distributed were to be by way of gift and not by loan; but at that entertainment there were a number of 15 experienced administrators who considered that as the word "advances" was used the Secretary of State meant to imply that the assistance should be by loan and not by gift. I hope the noble Earl will be able to clear up the ambiguity on that score. If I may be allowed to say so—speaking, of course, for myself, after a most bitter experience of two famines in India—I sincerely trust that my assumption that the assistance is to be by gift may be correct. The present famine, following the famine of 1896–7, which was of considerable dimensions, found the Presidency of Bombay and certainly the Central Provinces and other parts of India in a position in which they had hardly begun to recover from the former calamity. The famine now upon India, which must continue for some time, is of unexampled severity, and embraces an area, certainly as regards the Presidency of Bombay, larger than any before so devastated. We are in this unfortunate position, that whereas in 1896–7 over £1,000,000 was subscribed to assist the Government in their beneficent work, on this occasion, as everyone knows, we have a tremendous competition for monetary aid which naturally absorbs all minds and not less naturally draws all charitable funds towards the relief of the families of those soldiers who are serving in South Africa. Therefore, although the Indian people are confronted with a calamity of an unprecedented nature, the vast wealth of charity which was poured from the Empire on previous occasions cannot, of course, now be expected; and I greatly fear, if the aid is to be by loan, and punctual repayment is looked for, that those who are most in want of the assistance will be unable to avail themselves of it, while those who are better off, but only a shade less poor, will find their existing embarrassments increase in the future. There is one particular direction in which I would venture to suggest that this assistance might be given—namely, towards the provision of cattle when the famine has ceased. As your Lordships are aware, thousands of cattle have perished, and these useful animals, as your Lordships also know, are used for the ploughing and tilling of the land, and provide the means of transport beyond the railways. It would indeed be difficult, I think, to call your Lordship's attention too urgently to 16 this cattle question. The Government of Bombay—the only one I venture to speak for—have done all they reasonably could to save cattle by establishing camps, buying and supplying them with quantities of fodder, and also by railing large numbers of approved cattle to certain places in the forest where fodder was known to exist, and where water was to be found. But even if the Government of Bombay realise their most sanguine expectations they can only hope to save a fraction of the cattle. If it is true that for the moment the limits of charity have been reached, I venture respectfully to think that I have made out a case for gift and not for loan. Further than that, I see that my opinion is endorsed in a telegram from Sir Francis Maclean, Chief Justice of Calcutta, and Chairman of the Famine Belief Committee, who, in acknowledging in last Saturday's Times a remittance from the Lord Mayor of London, calls attention to the fact that this is the moment when money is most urgently required in order to assist the peasantry with seed and cattle for ploughing in view of the coming monsoons. Before I formally put the question, may I be allowed to express my extreme consciousness of the unvarying encouragement and the consistent courtesy with which I have been treated by the noble Earl opposite and by his chief, and until lately my chief, the Secretary of State for India, under circumstances which I think most people admit to have been difficult? The Secretary of State has been uniformly kind and considerate, and it has been a great pleasure to serve under him. Taking advantage of the latitude of your Lordships' House, I venture also to express my appreciation of the services of the innumerable officers by whom the Government and the people of India are being served in this time of exceptional strain and anxiety. I find it difficult, having been mixed up with them in circumstances which fall more heavily on the district officers than they do upon anyone else, to find adequate terms in which to express my admiration of their self-denial, their devotion to duty, and the zeal and courage with which they have discharged that duty. I have seen it frequently stated that sympathy does, not exist between the district officers and those over whom it is their duty to rule; but, after a most critical observation, I 17 am able to assure your Lordships that that statement is entirely without foundation. Whilst we naturally look for patience from civilians brought up in the country and trained to deal with civil populations, young soldiers are hardly the men you expect would patiently carry out either famine or plague administration; but. I can assure your Lordships that these young soldiers, of whom I had a largo number under me, have exceeded my utmost expectations. Whether you put them down in the crowded city of Bombay, with a great variety of communities to look after, and possibly on that account one of the most difficult cities in the world, or whether you place them in the more rural districts, you find they gain the confidence of the people, and by their tactfulness and resource are able to get them to do what they want. I cannot help thinking that the way in which relief has been given will be the means of bringing Europeans and natives closer together than they have been for many a year, and I am sure your Lordships will all have observed with admiration the extreme patience—I think I may call it the heroic fortitude—of the various peoples in India in the face of calamities which I think it is not too much to say are without parallel. I beg to ask the question standing in my name.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW

I must, in the first place, acknowledge the manner in which the noble Lord has expressed his gratitude to the Secretary of State for the sympathy he accorded to him in the very troublous times which fell upon the Presidency of Bombay during the noble Lord's administration. I think it would have been impossible for anyone occupying the position of Secretary of State in this country not to have sympathised with the noble Lord in the extremely difficult task which fell to his lot while he was Governor of Bombay, or with the noble Earl who sits beside him (the Earl of Elgin), who was Viceroy of India at the time of the approach of the famine, which the noble Lord justly said is without precedent in the history of this generation. The Government of India has undertaken the duty of giving work, and a wage, to every man who applies for it without any inquiry, provided he states that he is in a destitute condition, and 18 of giving gratuitous relief to distressed people who for any reason are unable to work. Beyond that, in the circumstances, I do not think any Government is entitled to go. But there are certain things which charitable funds may stop in and do in excess of the main duty of the Government, which is to save life from starvation. These things have been very clearly set out by Lord Elgin, and they are four in number. First of all, there are sums of money provided from charitable sources which might be applied to giving some additional comforts to weaker members of the community, such as medicines; secondly, to giving relief to those who, from reasons of caste or prejudice, might be unwilling to present themselves at the relief works; thirdly, in taking charge of orphans, who have been deprived of their parents by death from famine; and lastly, and most important of all, of setting on their legs again those who have been supported on relief works, in order that on the conclusion of the famine they might resume their normal occupations, agricultural and other. It was to that that the noble Lord more particularly directed his remarks, and he asked whether this advance was to be in the form of a loan or a gift. My answer to that is, it is both or either. That is to say the Government of India intend to provide a very large sum of money to supplement what may be available from charitable funds. The funds will be applied for supplying the necessary seeds, stock, etc., to the ryots in the famine districts for carrying on their operations. The scheme under which these advances —I think advances, after all, is the right word to use—are to be made is not yet completely settled. The Viceroy is in communication with the local Governments and will advise the Secretary of State as to the final shape which the policy should take. But this I can say— there will be no interest charged upon these advances; and, under any circumstances, they will not be repayable for at least a year, and repayment will probably be spread over a considerable time. The utmost latitude will be reserved to the Indian Government to remit, altogether or in part, repayment of the advances made to the ryots; and they will take into consideration the circumstances of each case. It is hoped that such measures will avoid, on the one 19 hand, any tendency to pauperisation by too lavish a grant of free gifts, and, on the other hand, the infliction of any hardship in reference to repayment. The Government of India trust that they will be able by these means to set on their legs again the great majority of those who are now suffering from a famine such as has never been known before in India, and who, no doubt, without such assistance would find it difficult to resume their normal occupations. It is also hoped that, within a reasonable time after the famine has come to an end, the land revenue of the Government will be restored.