§ [SECOND READING.]
§ Order for Second Reading read.
MR. BARLOW (Somersetshire, Frome), in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said its object was to amend the Act of 1887 in certain particulars. An amending Act was passed in 1896, but it had reference chiefly to the use of explosives in mines, and no reference to matters with which the Bill now before the House was intended to deal. The object of the present Bill was to provide for increased safety by making better regulations as to the timbering of workings by the owners, and to prevent the employment of unskilled labour. The Act of 1887, although it forbade one unskilled workman working in a mine, provided that two might do so. 596 He pointed out that if unskilled labour were used in the fiery mines in the West of Scotland the consequences might not only be serious as far as the masters were concerned, but dangerous to the lives of the men themselves. It also sought to provide that if a person did not enter a mine before he was eighteen, he should not be allowed to do so after that age; to raise the age at which boys might be employed in mines from twelve to thirteen, and to decrease the number of hours for which they might be employed from fifty-four to forty-eight. The Bill further endeavoured to obtain power for the presence of a representative of the relatives of a miner killed in an accident at the inquest, as well as power to inspect the place where the accident happened. Clause 2 provided for the formation of a district board, which should draw up special rules, and that the board was a reasonable one was shown by the fact that a district board should consist of three persons—a chairman, who was to be an impartial man unconnected with mines in every way, a representative of the owners 597 or employers, and a representative of the workmen, thus giving the chairman the casting vote, and constituting him, as it were, the umpire as between the views of the two parties. Clause 12 provided that shelters should be provided for the check weighers representing the miners. At some collieries shelter were provided as a matter of courtesy, but the promoters of the Bill felt that they should be provided as a matter of right. Another clause provided for the appointment of assistant inspectors. One inspector and two assistants would be utterly unable to properly inspect the mines in his district. In view of the lateness of the hour he did not propose to go into further detail, although there were several matters which ought to be gone into. The Bill was the same which had been introduced in the last few sessions, and in his opinion it would do something to render more reasonable and more satisfactory the lot of those who worked in mines, and upon whose labour the commerce and industry of the country was to a very great extent dependent. He moved the Second Heading of the Bill.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(Mr. Barlow.)
*MR. WOODS (Essex, Walthamstow)did not think it would be wise to go into the provisions of such an important Bill at so late an hour. The Bill had been before the House of Commons for the last five years, but owing to the exigencies of the ballot it had never had an opportunity of being discussed, and taking into consideration the fact that it was thirteen years since the Mines Regulations Bill passed into law, the House would agree that some amendment had become necessary. The Bill was admittedly of a far-reaching character, but he thought that after a little consideration the two parties interested might arrive at a mutually satisfactory arrangement. He would like to point out that if the House allowed the Second Reading, any necessary alterations might be made in Committee, and useful work done in several important particulars. The Check Weighing Clause introduced into the 1872 Mines Regulations Act, and improved in the Act of 1887, was an unmixed blessing from which the owners had derived as much advantage as the men. By the Bill before the House it was suggested that 598 shelters should be provided for the men who had to do the weighing up of the coal at the pit bank. Many owners or employers had done everything they could in this matter, but notably in the case of mines in the West of Scotland. The check-weighers who represent the owners had shelters, whilst the representatives of the men had not. He trusted that the Home Office and hon. Gentlemen representing the colliery interest would agree to the Second Reading, leaving the details to be threshed out in Committee.
MR. BANBURY (Camberwell, Peckham)said he was not at all surprised that the Bill had hitherto failed to pass, but he would be surprised if it were introduced five or six times more and even then succeeded in passing. He was very far from saying that there were not some good points in the measure. Everyone would agree that the clause raising the age at which children were to be employed was excellent, but the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Forest of Dean had a Bill dealing with that particular matter, and as there was no opposition to that Bill, the object of this clause in the Bill before the House was disposed of. There were twenty-eight clauses in the Bill, and it was impossible to deal with them adequately in the short time at the disposal of the House. But, shortly stated, the Bill was one to enable the collieries of England to be manage by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, with the aid of a gentleman who knew nothing about mines, of another gentleman who was an owner of mines, of a third gentleman who was a workman in a mine, and of any person who chose to make any suggestion of any sort or kind. A more extraordinary proposal it was impossible for the mind of man to conceive. There was a tendency nowadays to say that no man should manage his property in the way he thought best, and the House of Commons was to be continually interfering in the business relationships of the country. Such a thing would undoubtedly have the result of destroying the prosperity of all the industries of the country. The first clause provided for the making of special rules, but there was nothing to show by whom they were to be made. The chairman, who knows nothing about the matter, might make what rules he liked, and those rules, whatever they were, were to be observed. Then the way in which it was proposed in Clause 2 599 that a district coal mines board should be constituted was extraordinary, the first stipulation being that the chairman of the board should be a person who knew nothing at all about the business which he was to superintend, and he should be nominated or removed by the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. Then Clause 4, which dealt with new special rules which might be made for mining districts, was also a most extraordinary proposal. [Opposition cries of "Divide."] Hon. Members seemed to forget that the mining industry was a most important one, and that such a measure as this required some consideration.
MR. AUSTIN (Limerick, W.)Having regard to the obstruction that is taking place, I beg to move that the Question be now put.
MR. BANBURYsaid the mining industry was one of the must important industries in the country. He could not say how much money was invested in it, but he should think there was at least fifty millions, or perhaps double that amount. Turning to the person who was to make the special rules, and whose qualification for doing so was that he know nothing of the subject on which the rules were to be made, the position was that that gentleman made any rules he liked and the district board approved them. If it did not, then the Home Secretary would be asked——
§ It being half-past Five of the clock, the debate stood adjourned.
§ Debate to be resumed To-morrow.