HL Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1291-8
Viscount GALWAY

My Lords, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he can now make a statement about the pay and grants to the Yeomanry; and also what arrangements are proposed for the training this year. I am quite sure my noble friend will understand that my question is put simply with a view of ascertaining, for the information of officers commanding Yeomanry regiments, what arrangements are proposed for this year. Hitherto it has been the custom of most Yeomanry regiments, before this period of the year is reached, to issue the orders for training so that the men may have ample time to make their arrangements for coming out. The present uncertainity not only prejudices recruiting, but is most disadvantageous. I am glad to note that it is not proposed to make any change in the conditions, drill, and the dress of the Yeomanry pending further reports from South Africa and consultation with the various Colonels of the Yeomanry force. We want to know whether we are to use the carbine or the rifle, and, if the latter, what is the best way of carrying it. No doubt we shall be able to learn many lessons from those who return from the front. Since I placed my question upon the Paper statements have been made in another place by the Under Secretary of State for War with regard to the allowances proposed to be given to the Yeomanry. He stated that the contingent allowance is to be raised from £3 to £5, and that each yeoman who produces a horse at the training is to be given £5. Neither my noble friend nor the country have any wish that Yeomen should be out of pocket as a result of coming out to serve their country during the period of training, but whether the allowance will be adequate for the length of time proposed for training I should not like to say. Twenty-eight days seem a great deal to ask, and I doubt very much whether employers of labour will be willing to allow their men to be away for so long a period. The word "camp" has been mentioned, and also the term "brigade camp." I hope my noble friend will be able to give us a clear explanation as to what is proposed. I do not understand whether each regiment is to go into camp, or whether there is to be an attempt to revive the system of two Yeomanry regiments being brigaded together which was practically abandoned a year or two ago. If there are to be central camps I think it would be only right that the officers commanding the Yeomanry regiments should be consulted by the general officer commanding the district, or the chief officer concerned, as to the most suitable time and place, because it is most important that the men should be able to get away on market days to look after their business with as little inconvenience and as little expense for railway travelling as possible. We should also like information, in connection with the question of camps, with regard to the tents. I have known cases in which camping has been a very expensive matter to the regiment concerned, and if we are to go into camp I hope some provision will be made for the temporary shelter of our horses. I know it may be met with the answer that on regular service the horse would be picketed out, but it must be remembered that in that case the horses are the property of the Government, and that if they are in any way injured the Government are the losers. In this case, however, the horses are the private property of the men, and as they have been used to stables it is not improbable that they will contract bad chills and other complaints unless provided with stable accommodation. Owing to the fact that many of our officers have gone to the front we who are left behind are very short-handed, and I hope steps will be taken to give us additional assistance pro tem. I would suggest that the old system of one adjutant for each regiment should be returned to. I know there is naturally a feeling against seconding more officers from the cavalry for this purpose, but instead of seconding regular officers from the regular cavalry those officers going on retired pay should be sent for five years to the Yeomanry cavalry as adjutants instead of being drafted to the Militia. We all know the deep debt of gratitude we owe to our non-commissioned officers for the way in which they have worked during past years to keep up the organisation of the Yeomanry, and I think some opportunity might be taken this year to recognise their services. I now beg to ask the Question standing in my name.

*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE)

My Lords, I hope we may within the next few days be able to bring out an Army Order dealing fully with the points to which my noble friend has directed attention. In the meanwhile I am very glad to give him as much information as I can. It is intended this year to invite the Yeomanry to go into camps of instruction in lieu of the ordinary training. We hope that invitation will be responded to in all cases where the regiment is able to comply with the conditions upon which we intend to insist, and which I shall describe presently. With regard to the camps, it is our hope that we may be able to place them where they shall be easily accessible to the regiments concerned, and it will also be a sine qua non that they shall be in places within easy reach of rifle ranges. Musketry will form a conspicuous feature in the training. A scheme, showing how the different regiments are to be allotted to different camps, is under consideration, and will be produced before long, The full period of the duration of the camps will be twenty-eight days, and we propose that each yeoman attending shall be allowed £5 in consideration of his producing a suitable horse, and we also propose that the contingent allowance paid to she corps shall be raised from £3 to £5. But those two concessions will only be made in cases where the regiment is able to fulfil the special conditions. Those conditions are, first, that 50 per cent. of the corps shall be present in camp; secondly, that each man shall put in fourteen days attendance, and that each man shall go through a special musketry course which will be introduced this year. What I am describing has reference entirely to the special camps of instruction for this year, and has no reference to what may happen in years to come. Men will be given travelling allowances from their place of residence to the camp. My noble friend suggested, and I thought with force, that a whole month's attendance in camp was a great deal to expect from the Yeomanry. We intend to allow to the commanding officers a very wide discretion in the matter of leave; we propose that every man should be entitled to leave on full pay for Sundays, and besides that that he should be entitled to one day's leave on full pay in each week during which he is present in camp. The colonel will, of course, have the right of giving extra leave without pay, but it should be clearly understood that leave thus given, whether with or without pay, must not be of such an amount as to bring a man's attendance below the minimum of fourteen days. If a man only puts in twelve or thirteen days he then ceases to qualify and to fulfil the conditions indispensable for the higher money grants which I have described. In regard to the corps or men who are unable to put in fourteen days' attendance we propose that they should receive the usual Yeomanry pay, but that they should be allowed if they please to go through the special musketry course, for which, of course, a very much larger grant of ammunition than usual will be made to the regiments. Then as to the training, it is intended that only a few days, probably about four out of fourteen, shall be devoted to light cavalry training of the kind contemplated in the Yeomanry regulations, but the main object of the training will be practice in dismounted and outpost duties. Those are described in the cavalry drill book, and my noble friend is quite familiar with what I mean. As to the question of training the Yeomanry in brigades we propose that any regiments desiring a longer course of training than that I have indicated should have an opportunity of working in brigades, either in a brigade entirely composed of Yeomanry or if a sufficient number of Yeomanry units are not forthcoming, then in troops or squadrons affiliated to cavalry regiments of the Line. Of course in making this offer we quite understand it may be difficult for many regiments to avail themselves of it. We are perfectly aware that the Yeomanry have parted with a considerable number of men and a still more considerable number of officers, and these probably among the most efficient Yeomanry officers, who have gone to South Africa with the imperial Yeomanry. It will be, therefore, quite natural if many regiments are unable to go through a long course of training this year, but we do think it desirable that the offer should be made as some corps will, we hope, avail themselves of it. My noble friend said a word about Yeomanry adjutants, and expressed a hope that we might be able to return to the old arrangement, under which each Yeomanry regiment had an adjutant of its own. That, of course, raises a question relating rather to the permanent points that must be reserved for consideration when we come to deal with the more distant future of the Yeomanry force. As to that, I am very far from wishing to anticipate too much, but I think we must all feel that changes in regard to the Yeomanry are in the air, and I gladly repeat to my noble friend what I said the other day—that it is very far from our intention rashly to lay hands on the Yeomanry. To my mind it seems that its future position in the military system can scarcely be satisfactorily determined except after a full inquiry—an inquiry in which Yeomanry officers should bear a part. I think it highly probable that such an inquiry will take place, but I do not think it ought to take place now because I share my noble friend's opinion that we should do well to wait for the experience gained from the service of the Yeomanry in South Africa. I think a number of Yeomanry officers are likely to return with valuable knowledge and experience which we should gladly turn to account in deciding this most important question. I think I have noticed all or most of the points touched upon, but all points of detail will be made clear in the Army order shortly to be issued.

*LORD WINDSOR

My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War one or two questions in order to make the points to which he has referred quite clear. The first question I wish to ask is, will these camps be arranged for the Yeomanry, or will the arrangements be left to the individual commanding officers? Secondly, if the right number of men do their fourteen days training under proper conditions and make themselves efficient, will it still be necessary for the whole regiment to remain out twenty-eight days? I do not suggest that it is not right that the regiment should be out the whole time. Personally, I do not look with the slightest alarm at the suggestion that in the future the Yeomanry force may be very greatly altered. But I am glad to hear from the noble Marquess that there is no intention of making a sudden change this year, and that full advantage will be taken of the experience of those who have gone through service in South Africa before the rearrangement of the Yeomanry force is finally determined upon.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

Before the noble Marquess answers the questions which have just been put to him by the noble Lord opposite, I should like to ask whether the War Office Order to which he referred will deal with Volunteers as well as Yeomanry.

LORD NEWTON

I should be glad if the noble Marquess would also tell us if the allowance of £5 for bringing a horse into camp for fourteen days will be free from any conditional claim of the Government upon the horse for the rest of the year. It has been stated, I believe, in the other House, that it is proposed to give commissions in cavalry regiments to Yeomanry officers. Will the noble Marquess tell us if this statement is correct, and what the proportion of commissions to be granted will be?

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

It is our intention to provide camps for the Yeomanry. There may be special cases where the camping arrangements could be better made by commanding officers, and in such cases we should, of course, make special terms with the regiment concerned. I may explain that if 50 per cent. of a regiment go into the camp that 50 per cent. will be entitled to the special terms—£5 for a horse and £5 contingent allowance. If a further number go into camp and are unable to attend for fourteen days they will not get the advantage of the special terms, nor will their presence count towards the 50 per cent. minimum. The noble Lord opposite asked me whether the statement I had made had reference to Volunteers as well as to Yeomanry. We are dealing with Volunteers in an analogous manner, but I would prefer to make a statement us to them separately, and if the noble Lord desires information I shall be happy to give it him. My noble friend behind me asks me if the £5 allowance for a horse entails no condition or liability in respect to the animal in the future. That is the case. This year we propose to give £5 for the emergency training, but, as I have said, that is a special arrangement. I must say that if a similar grant is made hereafter, it will, in my opinion, be necessary to have some kind of lien on the horse at other times of the year. We wish to make our proposal as attractive as possible for the present special occasion. And the noble Lord asked whether commissions had been offered to the Yeomanry. Commissions have been offered to them, and I shall be glad if the question is repeated to describe exactly how these commissions are offered and under what conditions; but the matter scarcely comes within the four corners of my noble friend's original question.

VISCOUNT GALWAY

The point I want made quite clear is this. Supposing I am able to take my regiment to camp—say 65 per cent. of my regiment—for fifteen or sixteen days, with one or two days leave, am I at liberty to leave the camp after the 50 per cent. have earned the fourteen days grant? No mention has been made as to the time of the year at which it is proposed to hold these camps. Perhaps it would be convenient if the officers commanding Yeomanry regiments were consulted as soon as possible on the question.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

Fourteen days is the minimum period. If 50 per cent. of any regiment go into camp for fourteen days it earns the special terms. It will be perfectly free to do as many or as few days more duty as it pleases. As to the season of the year at which the camps are to be held, that, I think, is a matter which should be determined after consultation between the military authorities and those concerned. As the noble Lord knows, we have decided to appoint an Inspector-General of Auxiliary Forces, who henceforth will be distinct from the Inspector General of Recruiting, and the presence at the War Office of a high official in that position will, I think, give very great facility in clearing up points of detail.