HL Deb 01 March 1900 vol 79 cc1351-5

House in Committee (according to Order).

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2: —

Amendment moved— On page 1, after line 22, to insert as a new subsection, '(2.) The judicial authority shall, in his report to the Commissioners, state definitely whether in his opinion the detention of the patient is or is not proper.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

*THE LORD CHANCELLOR (The Earl of HALSBURY)

Clause 2 deals with judicial authorities and reception orders, and I move this Amendment so as to compel the judicial authority to state definitely whether in his opinion the patient ought to be detained or not.

On Question, agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 3 to 10 agreed to.

Clause 11: —

Amendment moved— To insert as a new clause, 'Section one hundred and sixty-nine of the principal Act shall be extended so as to permit a local authority to appoint not more than one-third of the visiting committee from persons not members of the local authority.'"—(Lord Norton.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I have no objection to accepting this clause.

Amendment agreed to.

Clauses 11 and 1 2 agreed to.

Clause 13: —

LORD RIBBLESDALE

I should like to ask the noble and learned Lord who is in charge of this Bill whether he will encourage me at this stage to move a new Boarding-out Clause. I think my noble friend Lord Monkswell, who is unable to be here to-night, has explained its nature to the noble and learned Lord. If he can accept it now I will explain it to the House.

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I am afraid that at this stage of the Bill I can not accept the Amendment. Personally, I see no objection to it, but there are two Departments of the Government interested —the Home Office and the Local Government Board—and until I have received their answer to a communication I have addressed to them I cannot go into the proposed new Clause.

LORD RIB BLESDALE

Then I may move it at the third reading?

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

Yes.

Clauses 13 to 18 agreed to.

Clause 19: —

LORD RIBBLESDALE

I move the omission of this clause because, in my opinion, it will lead to a good deal of unnecessary expense and inconvenience, and possibly friction. The plans of all asylums are subject to the approval of the Secretary of State (section 254 (2) Lunacy Act, 1890) after reference to the Commissioners (section 272 Lunacy Act, 1890), and I think this is sufficient for all practical purposes. The inconvenience and friction might arise in a case where a building was appropriated for some particular purpose and used under the advice of the Visiting Committee for another purpose. The London County Council also think that the provision of copies of the plans referred to would be very costly.

Amendment moved— To leave out Clause 19."—(Lord Ribblesdale.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I cannot agree to the Amendment. The clause? was discussed at considerable length and settled in its present form last session, and I see no reason why the Commissioners in Lunacy should not be consulted with reference to any alterations.

Amendment (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

Clause 19 agreed to.

Amendment moved— After Clause 19, to insert the following clause: —'The power of two or more local authorities to agree to unite in providing and maintaining a district asylum shall be construed as including a power to agree to unite in pro viding and maintaining a laboratory for pathological research in connection with lunacy.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

This is a clause which the medical profession generally are very anxious should be inserted in the Bill. It enables local authorities to unite in providing and maintaining a laboratory for pathological research in connection with lunacy, and I see no objection to its insertion.

New clause agreed to.

Clause 20 agreed to.

Clause 21: —

Amendment moved— In line 35, after 'widow or' to insert 'widowed.'"—(Lord Ribblesdale.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I cannot agree to this Amendment, because it would have the effect of excluding a woman who is not widowed but who has a helpless husband.

LORD RIBBLESDALE

I am inclined to agree with the noble and learned Lord. I told the Asylums Committee yesterday that I thought it would be better to leave the wording as it is.

Amendment (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

Clause 21, with verbal Amendments, agreed to.

Clauses 22, 23, and 24 agreed to.

Amendment proposed— After Clause 24 to insert the following clause: —'Section 335 of the principal Act (which relates to pensions of lunatics payable by public departments) shall extend to Scotland and Ireland.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

There is no reason why Scotland and Ireland should be excluded from the benefits of this section, and I therefore move that it shall extend to Scotland and Ireland.

New clause agreed to.

Clauses 25 to 27 agreed to.

Clause 28: —

Amendment moved— In page 11, after line 14, to insert as a new subsection, '(5.) Notice of the determination of a reception order under this section shall be sent to the Commissioners by the manager of the institution or person having charge of the lunatic within two clear days of the date thereof.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

It is obviously desirable that notice of the determination of a reception order should be sent to the Commissioners, and I do not know why this provision was omitted.

Amendment agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

First Schedule: —

Amendments proposed— In page 12, line 5, to leave out 'bear such proportion to' and insert 'not be less than six sixtieths nor more than twenty-four sixtieths of'; in line 6, leave out all words after 'injury' to the end of (1); and in line 13, leave out 'to which he is entitled' and insert 'which he may receive.'"—(Lord Ribbtesdale.)

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I am unable to agree to these Amendments to the Schedule. In the first place, I doubt very much the competence of this House to deal with questions of taxation; and, in the next place, the objection to the Amendments on the part of the Treasury is a proper one. The Amendments alter the nature of the pensions for the rest of the Civil Service, and the Treasury will not agree to them. If the words proposed were put in here they would certainly be struck out elsewhere.

LORD RIBBLESDALE

I cannot meet the taxpayer and Treasury objections, which are formidable in this House; but it was thought that the definitions "slightly impaired," "impaired," "materially impaired," and "totally destroyed," brought in such very subtle appreciations of injuries that it would be very difficult to estimate the amount of compensation. Can I move the insertion of the words in my Amendment, and let the Treasury object afterwards?

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

I am afraid not.

Amendments withdrawn.

Schedules agreed to.

*THE EARL OF HALSBURY

This Bill has twice been before your Lordships, and as the Amendments that have been inserted are of an unimportant character there is no necessity to refer it to the Standing Committee. I therefore move that the Standing Committee be negatived.

Standing Committee negatived; the Report of Amendments to be received on Monday next, and Bill to be printed as amended. [No. 17.]