HL Deb 28 June 1900 vol 84 cc1269-73

Order for the House to go into Committee read.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

; May I ask the noble Lord in charge of the Bill to modify a little its title? The "Burial Authorities (Cremation) Bill" has a most gruesome sound.

LORD MONKSWELL

I understand that the noble Lord representing the Home Office has a suggestion to make for altering the title.

House in Committee (according to Older).

Clause 1:—

LORD BELPER

The Amendment standing in my name to this clause is the first of a series which I have to move on behalf of the Home Office. The effect of the first Amendment is to alter the title of the Bill, and to make Clause 1 read:— That this Act may be cited as the Cremation Act, 1900. That Amendment not only answers the objection taken by the Prime Minister to the wording of the title, but also has the object of widening the scope of the Bill. Under the present law the only people who are dealt with under regulations, if they have crematoria, are certain local authorities, and the Bill as drawn only applies to burial authorities. The Home Office think it right that private crematoria, although they have been already established, should be subject to regulations which may be drawn up by the Home Office. The Amendments standing in my name to Clauses 5 and 6 will carry that out more fully.

Amendment moved— In Clause 1, page 1, line 5, to leave out 'Burial Authorities (Cremation),' and to insert 'Cremation.'

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY

I observe that the noble Lord has introduced a new word into the English language—"crematorium." Is that desirable?

LORD BELPER

I understand that it has been used in other cases, and that it may safely be accepted as expressing what is intended.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2:—

LORD BELPER

My first Amendment is simply for the purpose of making the definition of "burial authority" conform to the definition in the Burial Acts. The second Amendment defines the expression "crematorium" to moan any building fitted with appliances for the burning of human remains.

Amendments moved— In Clause 2, page 1, line 7, to leave out after 'burial authority' to end of clause and to insert 'shall mean any burial board, any council committee or other local authority having the powers and duties of a burial board, and any local authority maintaining a cemetery under the public Health (Interments) Act, 1879, or under any local Act'; and in page 1, after line 9, to insert 'The expression "crematorium" shall mean any building fitted with appliances for the burning of human remains.'"—(Lord Belper.)

Amendments agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3 amended, and agreed to.

Clause 4:—

LORD BELPER

Clause 4 will not be necessary with the Amendments which it is proposed to make to Clause 5. Under those Amendments the regulations that are made by the Secretary of State will refer to private crematoria as well as to those under public authority.

Moved, "That Clause 4 be omitted."— (Lord Belper.)

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5 amended, and agreed to.

Clause 6:—

Amendment moved—

"In Clause 6, line 6, to leave out 'in such place.'"—(Lord Belper.)

LORD MONKSWELL

said it had been suggested to him, but he did not think it could be the case, that by leaving out these words an important alteration might be effected in the law. At present there was a legal decision that the burning of human remains was not an offence unless committed so as to cause a public nuisance on to prevent a coroner's inquest. If these words were omitted from the clause it would be supposed that the law was intended to be altered so as to make illegal what was now legal.

LORD BELPER

I can assure the noble Lord that, so far as I know, there is no such intention in the Amendment. Clause 6 as it stands refers to crematoria under public authority, and the object of the Amendment is to make it apply generally and give power to deal with any crematorium in any place. But I will inquire into the point the noble Lord has raised.

LORD MONKSWELL

said he called attention to the matter because he did not think it would be desirable to make such an important change in the law on a Bill of this kind.

LORD BELPER

I will inquire.

Amendment agreed to.

LORD BELPER

The next Amendment standing in my name deals with the penalties in the Bill. The penalty in the case where anyone makes a fake certificate or a false declaration is quite inadequate. The object is to guard as far as possible against burning being made use of in order to conceal a crime, and in such a case it is very desirable that the penalty should be much larger than, that proposed in the Bill—namely, a fine of £50. I propose to omit the words "liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £50," and to insert "liable to imprisonment with or without hard labour not exceeding two years."

Amendment moved— In Clause 6, page 2, to eave out 'liable' to 'pounds' in line 15, and to insert 'to imprisonment with or without hard labour not exceeding two years.'"—(Lord Belper.)

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 7 and 8 amended, and agreed to.

LORD BELPER

I now have to move a new clause, the object of which is to bring all crematoria that have been, established under private Acts under this general Act, which is to deal with them all. I believe the model clauses that have been agreed, to in most of these cases, will be very similiar to those which the Secretary of State will make under this Bill, but it is desirable that they should, be brought under one general Act.

Amendment moved— To insert as a new clause:—'On the commencement of this Act any provision of any local and personal Act for a like purpose as this Act and any bye-laws or regulations made thereunder shall, so far as-they relate to that purpose, cease to be in. operation.'"—(Lord Belper.)

LORD MONKSWELL

said the House was rather in the dark at to the particular provisions which might be contained in the private Acts. He thought that some injustice might therefore be done by the insertion of the new clause.

LORD BELPER

I will postpone the clause till the Standing Committee if the noble Lord wishes. But this is an Amendment which the Government will feel bound to insist upon. When there is a general Act it is very undesirable that there should be exceptions.

LORD MONKSWELL

said he would accept the new clause now, but if he found that any local authorities con- sidered they would be badly used by its passing, he would submit an Amendment in Standing Committee.

New clause agreed to.

Other Amendments agreed to; Bill recommitted to the Standing Committee; and to be printed as amended. (No. 137.)