HL Deb 13 July 1900 vol 85 cc1430-3

Amendment reported (according to Order).

LORD HERRIES

pointed out that the first clause provided, amongst other things, that where the contractor pro-vided and used machinery driven by mechanical power for the purposes of threshing, ploughing, or other agricultural work, he, and he alone, should be liable under the Act to pay compensation to any workman employed by him on such work. He proposed that the words "horses or" should be inserted before the word "machinery." He could not understand why, if a contractor made use of machinery, the contractor should be liable to pay compensation, whereas if he made use of horse power the liability should fall on the employer and not on the contractor. They had been told that the difficulty could be got over by insurance, but it would be impossible for the employer to insure the workpeople of the contractor against accidents. Moreover, the clause as it at present stood would give rise to a great deal of litigation as to when the employment began. Supposing, for instance, a man employed a contractor with a self-binder to cut a field of corn, would the liability for compensation begin when the contractor was attaching the horse to the self-binder, or when he entered the field? He ventured to think that many legal questions of this kind might arise. If one of the horses employed by a contractor was vicious and kicked and injured somebody, surely the man who employed the contractor could not be considered liable. He had been told that this question was threshed out in the Committee of the House of Commons, but from inquiries he had ascertained from a Member for an agricultural district that the point had never been raised at all. The Amendment was in no way opposed to the principle of the Bill, and he hoped the noble Viscount would accept it.

Amendment moved— In page 1, line 15, after 'uses' to insert 'horses or.'"—(Lord Herries.)

VISCOUNT CROSS

Although I confess that I have considerable sympathy with the Amendment, I am afraid I cannot accept it. The great object of the Bill is to avoid litigation, and the Department which I represent are of opinion that the words of the Bill as it stands are quite clear and not likely to lead to litigation. Although it is true that some of these machines are driven by horses, a good many of the horses may belong to the farmer himself.

LORD HERRIES

pointed out that the clause, as he proposed to amend it, would read, "provided that where the contractor provides and uses horses or machinery."

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY

thought the Amendment would be a great improvement to the Bill.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The Earl of MORLEY)

said that in his opinion the Amendment was a very reasonable one. If a contractor's horse kicked a man the contractor ought to be liable for the injury just as much as he would be liable for an injury caused by the machinery he used.

LORD ALVERSTONE

said it would be better not to insert the words in the Amendment. He thought the difficulty which the Board of Agriculture must have felt was that if the words "horses or" were inserted there would be a difference in the case of a man kicked by the farmer's horse and a man kicked by the contractor's horse. It would be better not to draw this distinction.

LORD HENEAGE

said that, under the clause as it now stood, if a man was kicked by the contractor's horse he would obtain compensation from the farmer, who might then recover it from the contractor to whom the horse belonged. He supported the Amendment. If the contractor provided and used horses, he alone should be liable to compensate just in the same way as if he provided machinery.

On Question, "That the words 'horses or' be here inserted," their Lordships divided:—Contents, 22; Not-Contents, 25.

CONTENTS.
Grafton, D. Rosse, E. Heneage, L. [Teller.']
Spencer, E. Herries, L. [Teller.]
Ripon, M. Kenmare, L. (E. Kenmare.)
Zetland, M. Avebury. L. Leigh, L.
Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery.)) Macnaghten, L.
Dartrey, E. St. Levan, L.
Egerton, E. Brougham and Vaux, L. Tweedmouth, L.
Kimberley, E. Burghclere, L. Welby, L.
Morley, E. De Ramsey, L.
NOT-CONTENTS.
Halsbury, E. (L. Chancellor.) Lansdowne, M. Morton, E.
Devonshire, D. (L. President.) Mount Edgcumbe, E.
Cross, V. (L. Privy Seal.) Denbigh, E. Vane, E. (M. Londonderry.)
Lindsey, E.
Ailesbury, M. Mar, E. Frankfort de Montmorency, V.
Alverstone, L. De Mauley, L. Newton, L.
Ashbourne, L. Farquhar, L. Pirbright, L.
Balfour, L. [Teller.] Grey de Ruthyn, L. Windsor, L.
Calthorpe, L. James, L.
Churchill, L. [Teller.] Morris, L.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.