§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY, who was received with cheers, said: I have to apologise for having been absent on Monday and Tuesday, but it was unavoidable. I do not wish to make anything in the nature of a statement of a contentious character to-night, or any explanation of policy—the moment for that has Hardly arrived. We have but one policy, and that is Dissolution. [Cheers.] We wish to dissolve as early as we can, and we shall take every means in our power to bring about, as speedily as possible, that decision of the people in their constituencies, which can alone trace out a line for the future policy of the Government of this country. I merely have to say that we hope that 25 Dissolution will take place; on Monday or Tuesday week. I may be sanguine, but. I hope that will be the case; and our view is to subordinate to that great object every other consideration; that is to say, that if there are measures which, without retarding the Dissolution, can attain to their full perfection, of course we have nothing to object to then, if they are otherwise unobjectionable. But we should demur to, and as far as we are able to, resist, any proposal to postpone the Dissolution for the sake of passing any measure whatever, except, of course, those necessary money measures which are required to enable the public service to go on while the General Election is being carried out. ["Hear, hear!"] I have no other observation to make at the present stage, and unless the noble Earl opposite desires to make any statement on which it may be my duty to comment I will abstain from trespassing further upon the House.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERY, who was received with cheers, said, I am sure we have heard with the greatest interest the statement of the noble Marquess, in which he appears to me to have reduced to a minimum what we might have expected from him. [Laughter.] Unpractised as I am in the dialectics of the English language as sometimes practised, I was unable to follow as closely as I could have wished the way in which the policy of the new Government was to be evolved out of the Dissolution. Are we to have no proclamation, of policy before Dissolution? [Cheers.] It is rather an important matter. I do not wish to press the noble Marquess, or disturb in any way the harmony of the evening; for, as far as we are concerned, we are quite as ready to challenge the judgment of the country as the noble Marquess. But if on one side you are to have a declaration of policy which belongs to these benches, and which, if anything, errs somewhat in the extent and greatness of its scope, and on the other side a mere blank sheet on which something is to be written 26 after the constituencies have given their decision, we shall have arrived at a crisis of a momentous character and of an unparalleled nature. ["Hear, hear!"] I, therefore, hope that in due time, after whatever counsel the noble Marquess may see fit to take, he will give us some sort of statement of policy, and that he will not treat this House, of which he is the avowed champion, in a way more disrespectful than this House has ever been treated before. ["Hear, hear!"] I will ask one single question. I know very little, as I am not in the confidence of the new Government, of its proceedings but there is one proceeding of which I cannot help being cognisant, because it a fleets a Member of the old Government. On Friday night a Vote of Censure was passed in the House of Commons on the Secretary of State for War. That is a question I do not propose to go into at this moment. We shall have an ample opportunity of discussing it later; but on Tuesday morning the Secretary of State for War was proceeding from a Committee in the House of Commons and he was stopped by the Secretary to the noble Marquess, who demanded from him the seals of office.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYNo, no.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYMy statement comes from the Secretary of State for War himself, and I am disposed to place the most implicit reliance upon it. Of course my right hon. Friend said he was unable to deliver up the seal of office to any one except the Sovereign from whom he received it. That transaction is in itself so mysterious that I venture to ask for some explanation. In former times Sovereigns of an arbitrary character have sent for the seals of their Ministers without receiving them themselves, but that a new Minister, who had not been in office 12 hours should send his Private Secretary to a Secretary of State for his seals, without my written authority, is, to my mind, a 27 proceeding so unparalleled as coming from the head of the Constitutional Party that I think it is in the interest of constitutional history and constitutional tradition, as well as of the relations we are accustomed to cultivate between political parties themselves, although antagonistic, that a full and clear explanation of the nature and motive of this proceeding would be exceptionally welcome. ["Hear, hear!"]
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYWith respect to the demand of the noble Earl for a programme of policy, I would only observe that probably before the new Government pronounces a programme of policy, it might be expedient that the new Government should come into existence. With respect to the other matter—which I must designate by the, perhaps too familiar term, a mare's nest—the demand of the seals from the Secretary of State for War, I will tell the noble Earl, as far as I know, exactly what took place. In view of the nature of the Vote and of the possible requirements of the War Office, I thought that it might be desirable that there should not be an interregnum, but that the vacancy at the War Office should be filled up at once. I never thought of pursuing that plan except in the way of a friendly communication with the present occupant of the Office. I only sent to ask him whether it would be convenient to place in Her Majesty's hands the seals he holds at an earlier period than would be the case with the mass of the Government. I did not wish to put upon him the necessity of travelling down to Windsor. It has been in my experience a common thing to hand over the seals to other persons, and if he had been willing to do so it would have been convenient that he should have done so. It was merely a courteous request, for the purpose of facilitating the conduct of public business, which I do not think ought to alarm, the constitutional scruples of the noble Earl. The Secretary of State for 28 War refused, and there was an end of the matter. It might have been more convenient or it might not. I think it would. It was a perfectly natural and a perfectly harmless request to make and I never intended it to adopt the formal, official character which the noble Earl supposes attaches to it. ["Hear, hear!"]
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYThe noble Marquess has referred to precedents. I should be quite satisfied with a precedent of Victoria. [Laughter.] If the noble Marquess will kindly state on what occasion seals have been transferred in the streets to private secretaries I shall be glad. ["Hear, hear!"] I really think the matter requires more elucidation. The noble Marquess practically avows the whole statement, and only says that it would be a matter of convenience that there should not be a vacuum at the War Office.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI said interregnum.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYWell, interregnum, but I thought vacuum was a more correct expression. What he means by that I do not know. The noble Marquess sends his Private Secretary to try and extract the seals from the right hon. Gentleman, who now holds them, and I am bound to say that in every respect he has corroborated my statements, but has failed to give precedents for this extraordinary proceeding. ["Hear, hear!"]
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYIt is within my knowledge that it has often been the case that a Minister has handed over to some other person the seals to be carried to Her Majesty. I think that was done in the case of Lord Randolph Churchill when he resigned Office, and in many other instances. It is a very common way when a Minister finds it inconvenient to go down to Windsor; and that my Private Secretary demanded the seals from the Secretary of State can only be supported by an entire misunderstanding. What he wished 29 to ask the Secretary of State was that if he did not wish to go down to Windsor himself, he should confide the seals to some messenger of his own. It was merely a question for the convenience of the right hon. Gentleman, and I think it might have met with a more courteous reception.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYTalk of courteous receptions! [Cheers.] Has it not occurred to the noble Marquess that there might also have been a more courteous message? [Cheers.] Can any one conceive a more extraordinary proceeding than that after a Vote of Censure had been passed on a Minister of the Crown, he should be asked to hand over the seals of office in a manner neither courteous to himself nor in accordance with practice? It is extraordinary that the Secretary of State should be asked by the head of a Party in the State to give up the seals, and that he should have conceived that he was on such easy terms with a gentleman in the position of the Secretary of State that he could send his Secretary, very much in the same way as he would send his footman, to ask the right hon. Gentleman to hand over the seals. If the noble Marquess thought that the change of Government would be facilitated by some proceeding of that kind, and if I had been in the position of the Secretary of State—and my relations with the noble Marquess have never been otherwise than of an agreeable character—I certainly should have been extremely hurt if he had sent me such a message. I should have expected him to write me a letter and explain the reason why it was desirable that I should hand over the seals; and I should have thought, after the receipt of the letter, that, if it was possible to facilitate in any way the transfer of Government, then it was a matter which deserved consideration. I must say, I think this proceeding was one not in accordance with the habitual courtesy which prevails among us, and one which, 30 I think, the noble Marquess, if he reflects upon it, must think had better not have been done. It may have been done without thought, for I cannot believe that the noble Marquess could have deliberately intended to do what every one must feel was a very offensive thing to my right hon. Friend.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYAre we not rather descending to small matters? ["No, no!"] After the statement of the noble Earl I have but one course. If I am informed that Mr. Secretary Bannerman thought that I was discourteous in the manner in which I treated him, I have only to express my extreme regret. ["Hear, hear!"] There was nothing further from my intention. Whether you ought to send a verbal message by a private Secretary or communicate by letter in these cases is one of those border questions of social etiquette in which men may make mistakes. If Mr. Campbell-Bannerman thinks I did not treat him with sufficient respect, I have only to express my regret. ["Hear, hear!"]
THE EARL OF ROSEBERYThe message, whatever its kind or whatever may have been its means of transmission, ought not to have come from the noble Marquess at all, but from the Sovereign. It is not so small a matter as the noble Marquess thinks. However, we are perfectly content to accept the apology of the noble Marquess, but it is not a good augury for the new Government that they should have to begin with an apology.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI demur to the Constitutional doctrine of the noble Earl. What I wished to know was whether Mr. Campbell-Bannerman was willing to receive a message from the Sovereign to hand over the Seals.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI could not go to the Sovereign and ask her to send a summons to him without 31 knowing whether he was willing to give them up at once. It was simply my desire to consult his convenience that I took this step which appears to have excited a very disproportionate amount of interest.