SECOND READING. (Hansard, 15 March 1881)

§ EARL SPENCER

, in rising to move that the Bill be now read a second time, said: My Lords, I must remind your Lordships that it is only a short time ago since I addressed you on another Bill respecting the maintenance of the peace of Ireland. It is therefore not my intention, nor would it be your wish, that I should enter again into the condition of that country. The Bill that I am now asking you to pass is really only a second part of the measure which your Lordships passed nearly a fortnight ago. I then stated the reasons why it was the painful task for the Government to ask you to pass so extreme a measure for Ireland. Those reasons apply to the present Bill, as they applied to the former. I do not wish, for one moment, to convey to you that the present is a Bill of such importance to the restoration of peace in Ireland as the other. There have been occasions when the state of peace in Ireland has been disturbed very nearly as much, if not quite as much, as it has been disturbed during the last few months, When there was a measure in Ireland relating to the carrying of arms; but I may venture to say that there has never been an Act so stringent as the first Act which your Lordships have passed—there has never been an Act of that force in Ireland without peace and order being restored; but there is this difference between the two measures—the measure which you recently passed 1047 only operates for a year or a year and a-half; but this measure is to be of a more lasting character, although it is only of a temporary character also; but it continues in force for five years, instead of a year and a- half, and that is a most important difference. I need not refer at length to the outrages that I thought it necessary to bring before you the other night to show the condition of that country. These outrages are of various kinds; but they all show that the people of Ireland, at this moment, in their excitable condition, are not fit to be intrusted with the possession of arms, which they now have. Your Lordships will remember how fearful the use of arms has been. We have not only the use of revolvers, which have been imported so much lately into this country—and I confess I would like to see some Act, not only in Ireland, but in Great Britain, regulating the possession of this most dangerous weapon—but also frequent evidence of the use of firearms by parties of various size which commit outrages and intimidate well-disposed people. Besides the outrages, it is only necessary to refer to some of the speeches that have been made lately, during the last few months, to show what the possession of arms may lead to. There are many speeches which have been delivered referring to 100,000 men with rifles slung on their shoulders in America conspiring with success, and the Irish people are invited to follow their example. There are also speeches in which reference is made to the use of revolvers. "Pills" are recommended to be used, and we all know what they mean; but even stronger indications and more direct incitements to the use of dynamite have been made. I shall not detain your Lordships with any further description of the reason why this Bill is brought before the House. The measure is almost identical with the measure which was in force up to the beginning of last year. There are certain variations in the measure; but the provisions in it are nearly the same as those passed in 1875. The Lord Lieutenant will have power to proclaim certain districts, and upon that proclamation he will be empowered to make certain regulations with regard to the holding and carrying of arms and ammunition. And now, my Lords, the principal differences that have been introduced are—a summary jurisdiction and punish- 1048 ment of three months, instead of a reference to the Quarter Sessions or Judges in Assizes, who formerly might have given a longer sentence. With regard to carrying of arms, there is also a power given to the Lord Lieutenant to prohibit the importation of arms. We thought this was desirable, for in many cases in previous Acts it was found necessary to proclaim a single port or a city. We propose, however, to give the Lord Lieutenant power to regulate the importation of arms without specially proclaiming every port. There is a provision enabling the Lord Lieutenant to give the value of the arms that are sent in. That was introduced in "another place," and it is thought that it is a just thing to do, and also that it will encourage the peaceable delivery of arms throughout Ireland. These are the chief matters which are introduced in this Bill. I was nearly forgetting one most important one, and that is the provision relating to dynamite. I have referred to the incitement made in speeches for the use of this most dangerous explosive; and we thought it was desirable to clear up any ambiguity that might exist as to whether previous Acts really included dynamite. That is made clear in the Act, and I think your Lordships will agree it is a most important matter. I should like to point out to your Lordships a matter which is, I think, encouraging to the application of these Acts in Ireland. It would be premature to say how far these Acts will restore peace and tranquillity in the country; but I think I am entitled to give you some information which shows that though the first Act has only been in force a fortnight, there has been a considerable improvement with regard to the commission of crime in Ireland. So soon as the people of Ireland were aware that the Government were determined, the outrages began to decrease. I have here a Return of the months of December last year, and January and February of this year, which are satisfactory evidence of the decrease already. In December last year the total of agrarian crime was 867; that was made up of 432 threatening letters, and the remainder of other kinds of crime. In January the total was 439, of that number 251 being threatening letters, and 188 other kinds. In February the total diminished to 170, 80 being threatening letters, and 90 other crimes. That is to say, that the crime of an agrarian nature 1049 has diminished by one-half in January over December, and again in February over January by another half. That is a very satisfactory matter. I should now like to say one or two words with regard to the lesson which I think the Irish people may learn. Parliament has now been discussing for more than nine weeks those matters connected with the tranquillity of that country; and I think that the Irish people were misled by the speeches made last autumn as to the power of those who led the agitation. Threats were made by the leaders of that party that the Parliament of the United Kingdom would never pass these measures which were necessary for restoring order. I find these were the words of one of their leaders. In October last year I find reported in The Irish Times that Mr. Parnell said— They cannot suspend the Habeas Corpus Act without an Act of Parliament, they cannot pass a Coercion Act without an Act of Parliament, and so long as we are able to stand in Parliament I will undertake to say they will pass neither one nor the other. Well, but both these measures have been passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom; and yet Mr. Parnell, and those who support him, remain Members of Parliament. I think the Irish people ought to learn that when the Parliament of this country are determined to carry through any measure necessary for the peace and tranquillity of the country, they will do so, and that they are a powerful body, and that those who merely boast of their power in local meetings are weak, and cannot carry through the most simple motion. I shall not detain your Lordships any more. I sincerely trust that this measure will complete the necessary work of restoring peace and tranquillity in Ireland. It will, I believe, coerce only the few, and restore practical liberty to the many. I sincerely trust that the well-disposed people of Ireland, who, I believe, are very much more numerous than people suppose, instead of remaining in fear at home, will now have confidence restored, and that the terror which has reigned during the last few months will be destroyed.