§ The EARL of ST. GERMANSrose to put to his noble Friends the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (the Earl of Malmesbury), and the President of the Council (the Earl of Lonsdale), the questions of which he had given notice with respect to the quarantine regulations. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships that in the last Session of Parliament [3 Hansard, cxxi. 1267], he moved for the production of the minutes of proceedings of an International Sanitary Conference that met at Paris in the years 1851–52, and to which assembly many most eminent medical and scientific men were sent by the principal maritime and commercial States of Europe, for the purpose of considering and reporting upon the quarantine regulations now in force throughout Europe. His noble Friend the Foreign Secretary replied to him that the Government had no objection to give the information for which he had asked, but that they could not then lay upon the table the papers relating to the convention by which it was proposed to give effect to the recommendations of the Conference, because the precise terms of the convention were not yet agreed on. He (the Earl of St. Germans) at once acquiesced in the decision of the noble Earl, and left it entirely to his discretion to lay upon the table such extracts from those minutes and other papers as he could produce without detriment to the public service. At the same time, at the suggestion of the noble Earl the Chief Commissioner of the Board of Health (the Earl of Shaftesbury), the report of that body on the subject of the Sanitary Conference was also ordered to be laid on the table. That was on the 28th of May last; but up to that day, the 19th November, none of these papers had, as far as he knew, been laid on the table. He wished, therefore, to know, in the first place, what was the cause of the delay which had taken place in the production of these papers, and whether there was any pro- 225 spect of their being soon laid upon the table? He next wished to know whether the convention by which it was intended to carry into effect a portion at least of the recommendations of the Conference had been ratified, and, if not, what were the obstacles which prevented such ratification? He believed that he was justified in saying that for the last sixteen years such a measure had been strongly desired by the noble Earl's predecessors in office—not only by the noble Earl's immediate predecessor (Earl Granville), but by the noble Viscount who had presided over the Foreign Office for so many years (Viscount Palmerston), and also by that noble Viscount's predecessor (the Earl of Aberdeen); and it would be a matter of great regret to the country at large if his noble Friend could not hold out to them some hope of the ratification of the Convention at an early day. An impression (which, indeed, he sincerely believed to be erroneous) prevailed abroad that persons interested personally in the retention of the quarantine system had prevailed upon Her Majesty's Government to recede from the position occupied by their predecessors; and that, instead of aiding that onward movement which would have swept away those vexatious restrictions, they had been induced to incline towards their retention. He did not himself believe this to be the case; but he thought it would be satisfactory to the public to hear an assurance to that effect from the noble Earl. His next question would be addressed to his noble Friend the President of the Council. On the 2nd of September last, a letter was addressed by order of the Privy Council to the Commissioners of Customs directing that all vessels arriving from foreign countries having persons on board "actually suffering from cholera, or who had been suffering from that disease within five days previous to the arrival of the vessel in port, should be detained under a precautionary quarantine for such period as might be deemed necessary." Now he wished to ask the noble Earl (the Earl of Lonsdale) on whose advice and authority that letter was written? It was well known that the Board of Health, the tribunal specially charged by Parliament with the administration of the laws for the prevention of disease, not only utterly disbelieved in the efficacy of the system of quarantine regulations, but believed, on the other hand, that they were productive of serious evil in a sanitary point of view. The College of Physicians, also, although in 1831 they re- 226 commended the adoption of the most stringent measures for the prevention of the spread of cholera, and even went to the extent of proposing to isolate infected districts of the country, yet, in 1848, declared their conviction that all attempts to prevent the spread of cholera by means of cordons or quarantine regulations had utterly failed. On what medical or scientific authority, then, did the noble Earl rely when he issued these instructions? He wished next to ask the noble Earl what was the meaning of that passage in the letter which related to "persons on board in the enjoyment of good health?" His want of apprehension of the meaning of that passage might arise from his own incapacity, but, at any rate, he found his doubts shared by a very intelligent body of men; for shortly-after that letter appeared, a memorial was addressed to the Lords of the Treasury by the Manchester Chamber of Commerce, putting the very same question which he was now asking. Whether the Treasury had replied to that memorial he did not know, but certainly no reply had been published. He wished to know whether, by the "free communication with the shore," which it was stated would be allowed to persons in the enjoyment of good health, it was intended that they should be allowed to leave the vessel, or whether it was intended that they should be detained on board, and merely permitted to have intercourse with those on shore? Whatever might be the meaning of this passage, it altogether abandoned and relinquished the only principle upon which the quarautine system could be maintained; because if persons in good health having come to England with a vessel having cholera patients on board were permitted either to land or even to have free intercourse with the shore, it proclaimed to the world at once that we had no faith in the principle of contagion upon which we acted; and, therefore, this arrangement of the noble Earl was altogether inconsistent with the view which those must be supposed to entertain who enforced even a precautionary quarantine. The last question he had to ask was, whether any measures had been taken to ensure proper medical attendance being given to the persons who might be attacked with disease while they were detained in quarantine? We had not in this country, as was the case in the maritime States of Italy, lazarettos or hospitals for the reception of the persons on board ships declared in quarantine; but all 227 ships coming to our ports must perform quarantine, with the crew and passengers on board, at certain stations or grounds. The principal of our quarantine stations was that at the Motherbank; yet we were told by the superintendent-general of quarantine that he ordered the Eclair to Standgate Greek, because intercourse with the shore Was absolutely impossible at Motherbank in stormy weather. Stand-gate Creek, on the other hand, had been pronounced by Sir William Burnett, director-general of the medical department of the Navy, to be the most unhealthy spot on our shores. Then again, at the mouth of the Humber, where the northern ships performed quarantine, the quarantine station was several miles distant from Hull, and if the weather was rough, or the wind and tide were unfavourable, it often required six or seven hours to communicate with that town. If hospitals and lazarettos, well aired and ventilated, were provided, persons who were attacked had a reasonable hope and chance of recovering! but let the House consider what was the position of an unfortunate man suffering from disease, and yet cribbed and cabined between the decks of a merchant vessel riding in one of these quarantine grounds, and without the reach of the medical care of nursing that a person in such a state required. Such were the questions of which he had given notice to his two noble Friends opposite; but he also wished to put another, of which he had not and could not give notice. Their Lordships would, he was sure, have seen with deep pain and sorrow the announcement in the papers of that morning of the arrival of one of Her Majesty's mail steamers from the West Indies with the yellow fever on board, several fatal Cases having occurred in the Course of the voyage. The question which he now wished to ask was, whether La Plata-for that was the name of the steam-packet--had been relieved from quarantine; and if not, whether any accommodation had been provided, or any precautions taken, for the reception of the unfortunate men on board? Look at the case of the Eclair, which was long detained in quarantine, and in which disease prevailed and increased with the continuance of the quarantine, and Contrast it with the case of the Arethusa in December last, which, having landed its crew at Plymouth attacked by smallpox, had no fresh instance of disease afterwards; while in the Eclair, from which no person was permitted to 228 land, the ravages were frightful. These were the questions which he had to ask; and he would express his unfeigned hope that the answers which he was about to receive would give satisfaction to the House and to the country, and would convince both that the Government was not clinging pertinaciously to a vexatious and expensive system, which experience and science had proved to be utterly worthless.
§ The EARL of MALMESBURYsaid, that without subscribing entirely to the notion which his noble Friend seemed to entertain, that contagion was altogether impossible, he must assure him that Her Majesty's Government was not less anxious than its predecessors to bring the convention to which his noble Friend had referred to a satisfactory result. He was sorry to have to inform his noble Friend that at that moment the negotiations for the conclusion of the convention were not terminated; and, therefore, he was obliged to tell his noble Friend that he could not, with due regard to the public service, lay on the table of the House the papers respecting which he had asked. They were excessively voluminous, and he did not think that any extracts that could be given from them would give his noble Friend the satisfaction which he expected to derive from their perusal. Indeed, if he were to lay those papers on the table, he should only be delaying the progress of the convention. While he had to regret that the negotiations for the convention had not arrived at a successful result as yet, still, although they might not terminate, as he hoped at one time they would, in the general consent of the twelve Powers to one formal convention, he had a confident expectation that Seven Or eight of the principal maritime States would sign such a convention. It was naturally desirable that the principal Powers with ports in the Mediterranean should agree to such a measure; but at this moment some of the States of Italy, Spain, and Austria, either refused their signature to the convention, or else put forth such difficulties in the way of signing it as they had not been able to overcome; on the other hand, Portugal, Sardinia, France, England, and, he believed, he might say, Russia, did not object to sign such a convention as Her Majesty's Government had proposed. He hoped that before long it would be signed by some of the Powers of Europe, although he could hope to have it signed by all. When that event took place, he should have great sa- 229 tisfaction in laying on the table all the correspondence.
§ The EARL of LONSDALEsaid, that with respect to the question the noble Earl had addressed to him he should be happy to give his noble Friend all the information in his power on this subject. The circumstances connected with the letter of the 2nd of September to which his noble Friend had referred were these: It was represented to the Council by official authority that malignant cholera was raging at Dantsic and several of the principal ports in the Baltic, and the advice under which the Council acted in issuing the letter to which reference had been made, was given by one of the most skilful physicians of the present day. His noble Friend had complained of the letter of the 2nd of September as an act of severity and restriction on the part of the Privy Council; but his noble Friend was under some misapprehension in this respect, for if he would take the trouble of referring to the Act of the 6th Geo. IV., he would find that the Board of Customs had the power to send to any quarantine station any vessel arriving from a foreign port with any infected person on board. The late Quarantine Act allowed the Privy Council to give in each case such orders to the Board of Customs as the Case might require; and the letter of the 2nd of September mitigated several provisions of the existing law. His noble Friend said that he could not understand that letter. He was surprised at such an assertion, for to him it appeared that its meaning was clear enough. The letter mitigated the Act of George IV. very considerably, as it ordered those only who were actually attacked by cholera to be detained on board. He would not enter into any discussion with his noble Friend on the subject of contagion and non-contagion, for he knew that eminent physicians had not only differed from one another, but, at different periods, even from themselves, on these points. [The noble Earl here read, in a low voice, several conflicting extracts from the reports of the College of Physicians and of the Army Medical Board on the subject of contagion; and, in reply to a question of the Earl of St. Germans, said, that there were some physicians who denied contagion, but he believed that not merely three-fourths but nine-tenths of the profession advised all who consulted them to avoid contagion.] With regard to the news respecting La Plata, that vessel had only arrived that 230 day, and the intelligence had only reached him that morning through the telegraph. He had immediately consulted with the physician attached to the Board of Privy Council, Sir W. Pym, and had given orders that the parties should be relieved from quarantine. The physician had gone down himself, and would communicate such orders as were necessary to the quarantine station.
§ The EARL of ST. GERMANSHas any accommodation been provided for the parties on shore?
§ The EARL of LONSDALEhad already stated that he had sent down orders that the parties should be relieved. He also repeated his statement that he had sent down the physician of the Board to the quarantine station to give the proper directions.
§ Loan STANLEY of ALDERLEYwas uuderstood to remark upon the inconsistency of our sending a representative at the Sanitary Conference at Paris, to impress upon the other deputies that cholera was not conveyed by contagion, while we were renewing our quarantine restrictions in our own ports. The members of the Conference were of opinion, that cholera could not be conveyed by contagion, and a report had been made by a congress of American physicians, and had been recently published by the Board of Health in this country, in which it was stated to be their unanimous opinion that no quarantine regulations were of any avail in preventing the entrance of the cholera, if the atmospheric and other causes necessary for its production were present. It was not likely that we could make satisfactory progress with the Convention, if, while our representative at Paris was urging these views on the one hand, on the other the President of the Council was enforcing more stringent quarantine regulations with respect to cholera.
§ The EARL of LONSDALEsaid, that the regulations issued by the Privy Council were not more stringent, but were in fact a relaxation of the powers with which the Council were invested by the Act of George IV.
§ LORD STANLEY of ALDERLEYremarked, that it seemed very extraordinary that our representative at Paris, instructed by the Foreign Secretary, should there maintain views on this subject quite different from those entertained by the President of the Council.
§ The EARL of MALMESBURYalso protested against the idea that the repre- 231 sentatives of the British Government had been instructed to abolish all regulations of quarantine; they had only been instructed to mitigate and regulate them, and to render the burden of them less intolerable; and that was their object in attending the Sanitary Conference at Paris. If his noble Friend fancied that he could persuade the representatives of foreign countries to believe that cholera and other diseases were not contagious, he believed that his noble Friend, on trying it, would find that he was very much mistaken; nor would any convention ever be concluded if we were to wait until we had brought them to that conviction. Whether diseases of this kind were infectious or contagious, he did not know; but foreign countries were convinced of this—that they were catching.
§ LORD STANLEY of ALDERLEYsaid, he did not suppose that the different nations of Europe could be induced to forego all quarantine regulations; but the greatest number of medical opinions were certainly against the contagious character of cholera.
§ LORD WHARNCLIFFEwas understood to say, that nothing could be more preposterous than to subject a vessel to quarantine for yellow fever in our latitude, and in the month of November. The yellow fever depended on the thermometer. It was never known to exist when the thermometer was below a certain point. It was well known in tropical climates it ceased its ravages with colder weather. In New Orleans it was well understood that the first frost put an end to the yellow fever. When we were pressing upon other Governments the propriety of relaxing their quarantine laws, it placed us in an awkward position to be found enforcing our restrictions with respect to a disease so unlikely to spread as the yellow fever.