The Earl Roseberysaid, that he rose to present to their Lordships a Petition, which he deemed in every point of view to be of the greatest public interest. The petition was that of a numerous and highly respectable Society in London, which associated for the purpose of pursuing the best plans for the encouragement of industry, and for the reduction of the Poor-rates, by rendering the lower classes industrious and prudent. The petitioners earnestly prayed that their Lordships would take some measures to introduce a compulsory rate or tax upon land in Ireland, for the relief of the poor of that country. When he considered that in England, for upwards of two centuries and a half, a poor-rate had been established", which, until the most unjust departure from the original principle of the law, had always been found beneficial,—when he considered that in Scotland, although there was no regular relief for the poor, there was an assessment to make good the deficiencies that might arise in other funds for their assistance,—he could not but the greatest surprise that Ireland should be left so totally destitute of any regulations or provisions upon the subject. In Scotland the system had been found to have a beneficial effect upon the moral character of the poor. Ireland combined in itself circumstances of every description which was calculated to render a system of Poor-laws more necessary then they were even in England or Scotland. The rich landowners and men of property of Scotland, resided in that country, and their local knowledge and immediate acquaintance with their neighbourhood made them sympathise with the poor, and provide for their relief. Scotland, moreover, as well 1387 as England, was possessed of numerous large manufacturing towns, which relieved the agricultural districts of their superfluous population. It was well known that Ireland presented in every respect the very reverse of this. Her gentry were absentees, and her population almost entirely agricultural. He hoped that the attention of his Majesty's Ministers would be immediately directed to devise some plan by which the miseries suffered by the poor of Ireland might be alleviated, for at present the evils of that country were increasing, and they would increase, if remedial measures were not adopted.
The Earl of Limerickwould not be deterred from opposing the prayer of the petition by the popular odium that might be cast upon him, for he was determined on this subject to stand the brunt of prejudices. The petition was of an extraordinary nature, and it came into that House from an extraordinary quarter, for it was presented by a nobleman from Scotland, a country which he verily believed would rather witness the introduction into it of the cholera morbus, than a system of Poor-laws. It was really extraordinary that the petition should have been presented by his noble friend; but from whom did this petition proceed? This was more extraordinary still,—it came from a society of the City, held at the Poultry Tavern. "My Lords," cried the Earl, "Oh, my Lords, my Lords I the Lord deliver me from societies." His noble friend had come forward with the most ludicrous petition from the most ludicrous society, which he (Lord Limerick) had ever heard of. Every thing was now to be done by means of societies. Perhaps the petitioners formed a part of that notable and new society, which was to save the people the trouble of thinking about who were fit to be their Representatives, and to fit them with candidates of all colours and of all sizes. What were now the effects of the Poor-laws? The poor would make improvident marriages, they would get children, and then the cry was that the children must be supported. The tendency of Poor-laws on the population of Ireland would go to an incredible length—there was no foreseeing how far it would go. This was not a ludicrous subject, however it might appear so. He would ask the landlords of the south of England what had been the effects of the Poor-laws? Were not the poor-rates taken 1388 with ingratitude, and given with reluctance? It could be shown he thought, from evidence, that the Poor-laws were open to very great abuses; and there was also testimony to show that the supposed evils arising from their absence in Ireland did not reach such a height as the advocates of the measure endeavoured to make out. In particular he might mention, that a Roman Catholic Clergyman, on being asked if he had ever known, in all his experience, any one die of starvation, had stated that he knew but of one case, and that one was distinguished by very peculiar circumstances. A Committee of the House of Commons had sat upon the subject, and he maintained that from the report of that Committee, it appeared not advisable to introduce a system of Poor-laws into Ireland; and the labours of that Committee superseded the necessity of bringing the subject before the House as his noble friend had done.
Lord Teynhamthought, that the state of the population of Ireland was most remarkable, but he felt confident that Ministers would give attention to the subject, and devise the most eligible system of relief. He was convinced, from the report of the Committee to which the noble Earl had alluded, that the introduction of the Poor-laws into Ireland was a measure of absolute necessity. The condition of the poor in the south of England had not arisen from the Statute of Queen Elizabeth, but from the departure from the principle of that beneficial law.
§ Petition to lie on the Table.