§ On the Earl of Cawdor presenting a Petition from Darlington, in favour of the Ministerial plan of Reform,
The Duke of Newcastlesaid, he wished 1389 to take that opportunity to say a few words on the question of Reform. He was the more desirous to do so, as on the occasion of the irregular discussion which took place previous to the holidays on the motion of the noble Baron (Wharncliffe), he left the House after the reply which had been made by the noble Lord (Durham) to that noble Baron's speech, not conceiving that a proper time to discuss the subject, and he had not, consequently, been present when the observations which had fallen from the noble Duke opposite (the Duke of Richmond) respecting the borough of Boroughbridge, had been addressed to their Lordships.
§ Earl Greyrose to order. He conceived that any reference to a report of what had taken place in a former Debate in that House was quite irregular, and out of order.
The Duke of Newcastlethought he ought not to be debarred of an opportunity of replying to the observations of the noble Duke.
§ The Earl of Hardwickewas also of opinion, that it would be out of order to refer to any report of what had taken place there in a previous Debate.
Lord Ellenboroughobserved, that the noble Duke might easily avoid committing a breach of order, by answering the observations in question, without supposing that they had been delivered in a Debate in that House.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, that it would be quite irregular certainly to allude to any observations which had been made in a Debate in that House, but the noble Duke might avoid the difficulty in the mode which had been pointed out by the noble Lord who had just sat down.
The Duke of Newcastlesaid, that the noble Duke opposite had, in a place which he should not mention, made an attack upon that class of persons to which he (the Duke of Newcastle) belonged, which he was anxious to answer. That noble Duke had stated, that the late Attorney-general (Sir C. Wetherell) was retained, by his seat for Boroughbridge, to exert his talents against the measure of Reform. He knew something relative to Boroughbridge, and he would say, that that statement was not founded in fact. He would assert, that the statement of the noble Duke was a libel upon that learned Gentleman, and upon the patron Duke of that borough, and he would maintain that 1390 there were not more independent Members in the House of Commons than that learned Gentleman, and the other hon. member for Boroughbridge. It had been stated in that House and elsewhere, that one of the three causes which had rendered Reform necessary, was to be found in certain transactions that had taken place in Newark. He did not think that such a reflection upon his (the Duke of Newcastle's) comparatively pigmy acts came fairly, or with a good grace, from an Administration which had committed much higher and more flagrant acts of a similar description. He alluded to the control which had been assumed by the present Government over members of the Royal Household and over others in the House of Commons connected with Government appointments. It might be fairly said, he thought, that when, in order to carry this measure of Reform, certain persons who had voted against it had been dismissed from the Royal Household, such an act was a grosser attempt to control the public feeling and the votes of Members of Parliament than any tiling which could he laid to his account. He thought it his duty to notice such a violent and arbitrary act on the part of his Majesty's Government. And here he could not avoid alluding to the attacks which were made in the public prints upon an illustrious personage. He thought that it was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to interfere and put down the improper mention of the name of that illustrious personage, which had been made the subject of remark and attack in the public press. He repeated, that he thought his Majesty's Government ought without delay, to put down such means of maligning that illustrious personage. He wished to take this opportunity to ask his Majesty's Ministers whether the statement which he had been told had been put forth with some degree of authenticity, was correct—namely, that in case of a dissolution of Parliament, which he trusted would not take place, it was intended by his Majesty's Government to omit sending writs to those boroughs which, by the present measure of Reform they proposed to disfranchise? He was sure that such a thing would not be practicable, and that the act, if attempted, would be a most arbitrary and unconstitutional one on the part of Government. With regard to Parliamentary Reform, he begged to say, that 1391 he considered it wholly unnecessary, and that he would oppose in all its stages the measure of Reform which had been brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers. He thought it wholly uncalled for —that it was a gross delusion upon the public of this country, and that it was attempted, by a species of political turmoil, to carry such a measure through the Legislature. Before he sat down, he wished to point out one little kind of Reform of his own. They had heard of certain Dukes and Marquises who had avowed themselves ready to throw their political interests into the political caldron, and to devote them to the public good. Now if those persons who were concerned in the maintenance of such interests should agree to the forfeiture of them, it was all well, and those noble Lords should be allowed to sacrifice them. He would say, therefore, let those who wished to throw their influence and interests into the patriotic fund, be permitted to do so.
§ The Duke of Richmondsaid, that he did not rise to answer the observations which the noble Duke had taken three weeks to concoct, nor to reply to the charge which he had made against him; he merely rose to put a simple question to the noble Duke, and in doing so he begged to observe, that there was no man in the other House of Parliament, of whose legal attainments he had a higher opinion than of those of Sir C. Wetherell. He wished to ask the noble Duke whether, if Sir C. Wetherell should on Monday next vote for the Ministerial plan of Reform, he would any longer continue to sit as member for Boroughbridge?
The Duke of Newcastle.—I dare say that he would not wish himself to retain his seat for that borough any longer if he did so vote.
§ Petition laid on the Table.