§ The Earl of Aberdeenlaid on the Table a Treaty of Commerce and Navigation which his Majesty had concluded with the Emperor of Austria and signed at London, December 21st.
§ Earl Stanhopeobjected to this and the other similar Treaties, which were founded on what was called the Reciprocity System. There was, in fact, no reciprocity, for all the advantage was on one side; that is, all was in favour of the foreign power, and against this country. Treaties for the encouragement of mutual commerce were highly advantageous; but these Treaties were for the encouragement only of the trade of other nations, and the ruin, of our own trade. When petitions were pouring in from all parts and from all the different interests of the country, complaining of distress, it was surely a bad time to sacrifice the interests of the ship-owners and others of our own country, in order to promote the interests of the foreign shipowner. It would be impossible for the British ship-owner to compete with the foreign, particularly with the ship-owners of the United States, on this system of reciprocity. It ought always to be kept in view that foreign vessels in general could be built and equipped at one half the expense that attended the building and equipping of British vessels. He profited by that opportunity of entering his protest against these ruinous measures.
§ The Earl of Aberdeenadmitted that this was not a Commercial Treaty of the description which would be satisfactory to the noble Earl with his view of the subject; but he was very far from admitting that this country would derive no advantage from it. With respect to the distresses of the country, and the distress of the shipowners particularly, these distresses did not arise in any degree from the alteration made in the Navigation Laws. Even if the increase of British shipping had been suspended of late years, still that would be no sure criterion that the alteration bad done harm, although a plausible argument might have been drawn from that circum- 1047 stance. But the fact was, that the British shipping had of late years gone on progressively increasing, and 400 more British vessels had passed the Sound last year than in any former year. All those Treaties, however, were in some measure matters of experiment, and therefore they were to be in force for a limited time; and in the present Treaty the duration was limited so that it would expire at the same time with the rest, and then Parliament would have the whole subject brought under its consideration. He found this Treaty advanced to a certain extent when he came into office, and the faith of the country was then in some degree pledged.
§ Viscount Goderichdid not think it necessary to enter upon the discussion of the subject at length, on the present occasion, as his noble friend had intimated that the whole matter would be, at a future period, brought under the consideration of Parliament. But he had some time ago moved for certain Returns, from which it appeared that since this reciprocity system was adopted, the British shipping had gone on in a constant progressive course of increase, as compared with the shipping of all the rest of the world, except Norway, which owing to particular circumstances in its situation had increased its shipping faster than England. In particular it had been predicted that British shipping would be sacrificed to Prussian shipping; but the fact was, that the British shipping almost to the exclusion of Prussian shipping, monopolized the trade between the two countries. The Returns he had previously moved for, ended with the year 1828; but he had little doubt that the increase had gone on in the course of the last year. Some spoke of these Treaties as if they were merely speculative schemes resorted to by Ministers without any kind of necessity. But that was far from being the case; for, as we had levied very high duties on the shipping of foreign states, they retaliated by imposing very heavy duties on ours, and in that way we were sure to have the worst of it. The adoption of this reciprocal system was therefore a matter of necessity. If it had not been adopted, there could scarcely be a doubt but that the situation of this country would have been much worse than it actually was. By its means the British shipping had been enabled to compete with the shipping of all the world. At present the trade carried on by British shipping with the United 1048 States of America, exceeded all the trade carried on with those States by the shipping of all the rest of the world put together. The ultimate effect of the system, he believed, would be of great advantage to this country.
Lord Ellenboroughsaid, that he had at first much the same view of the reciprocity Treaties as the noble Earl opposite. But he found from the Return that British shipping had gone on regularly increasing, and it was with great satisfaction that he felt himself bound to declare that he now thought he had been mistaken in his first impressions. He was not aware that the subject was to be discussed, or he should have come prepared with documents to justify his change of opinion.
§ Earl Stanhopesaid, that the Returns to which noble Lords alluded, included all steam-boats employed as passage vessels; and he was yet to learn that either the wealth or the naval power of the country was increased by the visits of the Londoners to Margate. His question was, whether we were carrying on a profitable or an unprofitable trade; and he contended that our trade was unprofitable. To say that it was not, because it was not altogether given up, was like saying that there was no agricultural distress because the farmers had not abandoned their farms. It was a plain matter of arithmetic that the English ship-owners could not compete with foreigners who built and navigated their vessels at half the expense of the English ship-owner. He wished to have an inquiry into this subject, for if the information which reached him were correct, he believed that our ship-owners were keeping their ships a float at a great loss.