§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, some nights ago a noble Lord opposite (Earl Stanhope) had asked him a question respecting the authority upon which he had made the statement which he had offered to their Lordships on the first night of the Session, as to the amount of the Currency. He had then told the noble Lord that he had made the statement from information which had been supplied to him, but that he could not at the moment say from what official documents it had been derived. He had since ascertained that point. If the noble Lord had no objection, he would now make a motion which would place the documents on which his calculation was founded, on the table of their Lordships. The noble Duke accordingly moved for various returns, elucidatory of his former statement.
§ Earl Stanhopesaid, that the information which the noble Duke was now granting was very desirable, and very fit to be laid before their Lordships. He was, however, still unable to make out how the noble Duke could derive from these returns the results which he had stated. He would, for his own part, confess that the manner in which the noble Duke had spoken on this question on the first night of the Session, had left an impression on his mind, and he believed on the minds of the rest of their Lordships, that those results were derived from calculations founded upon official papers. It turned out, however, from what the noble Duke said on a former night, that they were derived from nothing but a memorandum of the noble Duke's own. The returns for which the noble 582 Duke had moved, might show the quantity of paper issued by the Bank of England, and the quantity of gold and silver coined by the Mint; but they could not show the quantity of gold and silver now in circulation. A great quantity of the bullion which had been coined must have disappeared, for their Lordships had heard of one large capitalist, who, for some time, had gone on exporting to the amount of half a million of sovereigns in a week. But the statement of the noble Duke bore a fallacy upon the face of it; for if we had more gold in the country now than we had at a former period, how, he would ask, had that gold been purchased?
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that he had moved for the production of the documents from which he had obtained his information, in the hope that they would make the same impression on the minds of others as they had made upon his own. If he had drawn erroneous conclusions from those documents, the noble Lord would be able to detect them, and would have a right to find fault with them as fallacious and delusive. He thought, however, that the noble Lord would not be able to convict them of error. Indeed, he was sure that noble Lords, after inspecting those documents, would agree with him that, in the comparison which he had drawn—for it was nothing else but a comparison— between the amount of the Currency at the time when there was the greatest circulation of paper, and the amount of the Currency at the present time, he was right in saying that there was a larger quantity of coin now in circulation than there was formerly. He was sure that all their Lordships would allow that when the exchanges were in favour of this country gold would not go out of it. Gentlemen might carry it abroad with them to meet their individual expenses, but merchants would not send it abroad as an article of merchandise. He admitted that when the exchanges were against this country, the quantity of gold drawn from the Bank might indicate the quantity taken out of the country, and the result of those two principles of calculation was that which he had stated to their Lordships on the first night of the Session.
§ Viscount Goderichsaid, the documents for which the noble Duke had just moved, when added to those for which he had himself moved on a former evening, would put their Lordships in possession of all the 583 information which could be of any avail to them upon this subject. As to the amount of gold coin in circulation at any given time, there must always be some degree of doubt, for no accurate information could be obtained of the quantity of gold coin that was re-imported after it had been once exported. There could be no doubt that a great quantity of the gold which was exported was afterwards re-imported when an alteration of the exchanges ensued. He would state the grounds upon which he made that assertion. During the years 1824 and 182.3 the exchanges were unfavourable to England, and a considerable quantity of gold was drawn from the Bank for the express purpose of being exported to France. At the termination of the year 1825, the exchanges turned, and became favourable to this country; and then the very identical sovereigns which had been exported were re-imported in the same casks by the same persons who had exported them, to the amount of 1,500,000l. or 2,000,000l. Their Lordships must not therefore assume, that because gold was exported, none was re-imported. What he had just mentioned to their Lordships he knew of his own personal knowledge to be the fact.
The Marquis of Lansdownesaid, that although the returns which had just been moved for might afford some approximation to the amount of our circulation, they would only afford an approximation, and ought not to be considered as accurate. He was, however anxious to slate to their Lordships why he should not attach much importance to these returns, even if they could be procured of perfect accuracy. He apprehended that Circulation was one thing, and Currency another, for the amount of Currency did not always agree with the amount of Circulation. He likewise apprehended that the amount of Currency was not. to be taken as a test of national prosperity. One of the most acute and enlightened Ministers, on points of finance at least, which France had over possessed, (M. Necker), had made a series of calculations at the time of the Revolution, from which it appeared that the amount of Currency in France was greater at that time than the amount of Currency now is in England; from which, if any body inferred that there was at that time greater prosperity in France than there was at present in England, he would 584 come to a conclusion quite irreconcileable with facts. For his own part, he believed that, if by some fatal calamity half the traders of England were to become bankrupts to-morrow, such an event would greatly increase the amount of the Currency; for it would destroy confidence and intercept credit; and to supply the credit thus suspended, it would be necessary to issue a greater amount of Currency. The wealth of the country would not be increased by such an occurrence; but undoubtedly there would be a great increase in the amount of the Currency. He thought it right to call the attention of their Lordships to the distinction which existed between Circulation and Currency, and to guard them against considering the amount of the Currency as a fair index of national prosperity.
§ Earl Stanhopestated, in explanation, that he never considered gold, once exported, as banished for ever from the country.
§ The returns were ordered.