HL Deb 24 March 1812 vol 22 cc151-3

The order of the day for the second reading of this Bill being read,

Earl Grosvenor

observed, that he had a strong aversion to these temporary measures on so important a subject. He should not oppose the second reading of the Bill, in the hopes (hat their lordships would agree to an extension of its principle, and continue the prohibition of granting offices in reversion for 20 years. He was thoroughly convinced that these grants ought to be completely abolished. It was, in his opinion a measure of the greatest consequence, though he knew that it had been described by some as one of very trifling importance, and by persons, too, who might have had the best reason to be satisfied of its great importance. It was sufficient, however, for his argument, that the public thought it a measure of the last importance; and, in his opinion, unless these grants were abolished, the constitution itself would be endangered. He had, on a former occasion, brought this question before their lordships, and he was not yet discouraged. On whatever side of the House he might find himself, he should still persevere till the object was accomplished. He was satisfied, that unless the practice of granting offices in this way was abolished, the people would feel a perpetual distrust of the executive government. There was hardly any individual, he should suppose, but wished the abolition of the practice, except such as expected to profit by its continuance. Their lordships had before recognized the principle of the measure of abolition. But it had been argued, that no material saving was to be expected from the adoption of the measure. It had not been advocated merely on the ground of the immediate saving it would produce; but supposing it had, he contended, that the argument was far from being unfounded he was convinced that the measure was highly important, even with a view to immediate economy. If the abolition of the practice had taken place at the beginning of the present reign, several places which now existed would have been altogether abolished, and there would have been a saving to the state of many millions. A strong objection to these reversions also was, the clandestine manner in which they were given. The appointment of Mr. Buller to be Clerk to the Privy Council had lately been noticed in another place; and the statement in reply was, that this place had been long ago given to Mr. Buller in reversion, even while he was an infant. This was what hardly any body had been aware of, and was a proof of the secret way in which these transactions were carried on. Mr. Buller might be a proper person for the office: he knew nothing about that, either one way or the other; but if he was, the public was so far fortunate, and more fortunate than it deserved to be, since it had permitted this practice to continue so long. He maintained that its abolition would be most important, as recognizing the principle of economy, besides the actual saving which it would produce. The noble earl then adverted to the reason assigned in the preamble for passing this temporary measure, which Was, that something connected with the subject was under consideration by a committee of the other House. The reason was an absurd one, as far as it could be exected to operate with their lordships. They could not regularly take notice of what was under consideration in the other House; but they all knew, that the subject referred to was that of sinecure offices. And the truth really was, that these, though distinct from reversions in one sense, were nearly connected with them in another. They were inseparably linked together. They were the vultures that preyed on the vitals of the country, and as they had lived so they ought to die together. He hoped he should not be told by the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, as an excuse for himself, that many distinguished chancellors had granted offices in reversion. It did not follow, therefore, that they approved of the practice, or that the noble and learned lord himself approved of it. That most excellent man and distinguished judge, sir Matthew Hale, had decried the practice; lord Coke had also decried it; and was it to be doubted but lord Hardwicke and other eminent chancellors disapproved of it, and would have said so if the occasion had arisen? If this practice were abolished, that would indeed be a day of jubilee—of real jubilee for the people: but without this, all would be discontent and disappointment. The Prince Regent would have to regret the pernicious advice which had led him to treat with indifference, not to say with contempt and scorn, propositions of such importance as this. The noble earl concluded by declaring, that when the Bill came to be committed, he would move to extend the period of prohibition to twenty years.

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed the first Thursday after the recess.