§ Earl Camdenrose to move an address to his majesty, praying for the production of certain papers. They were of two descriptions ; one alluded to the Additional Force bill, and to the number of men raised under its operation in each county and parish; the other referred to the general recruiting service for the different corps of which the army was composed. He should not now enquire, for he could not expect an answer to such a question, whether it was the intention of his majesty's ministers to repeal that bill. He had no wish whatever to provoke or anticipate any discussion respecting the plan that was in preparation for improving and strengthening our military system: the chief object of the motion with which he should conclude, was to collect and have in readiness before the house such information as was likely to bear upon the important question that was soon expected to engage their lordships' attention. He did not foresee any objection to what he should have the honour to propose; but if there was any, he should be ready to couch his motion in what less objectionable terms his majesty's ministers should think proper to suggest. His lordship then concluded with moving, "that an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that he would be pleased to give directions that there be laid before the house a Return of the number of men raised in each county and parish, conformably to the provisions of the Additional Force bill."
§ Lord Grenville said,he should have no objection to the motion, provided it was understood that time return moved for not only contained the number of men raised by the provisions of the bill in question, but also a description or explanation of the particular manner in which they had, been raised in each parish. That was the consideration which in his mind would principally bear upon the plan that was to be brought forward, the particulars of which he expected would be known before forty-eight hours had elapsed. Much impatience had been expressed at the delay that had accrued in bringing forward that measure; but it should be recollected how essential it was both to the military service, and to the present circumstances of the, country, that nothing crude and imperfect 591 should be hastily thrust forward, but that leisure, thought, and consultation, should be employed in digesting a system that should fairly promise to answer its object, and meet the exigencies of the case; considering the motion in the. point of view in which he had placed it, there should be no opposition to it on his part.
§ Earl Camdenhad no desire but to obtain such information, as was likely to be useful in the discussion that was so soon to claim their lordships' attention; and he willingly consented it should be understood, that when the return was made, it. should be looked upon not only as indicative of the number of men raised, but also of the particular manner in which they had been raised.— The motion was then put and agreed to. The noble earl next moved, a similar address for the production of several other papers relative to the general recruiting of the Army, which motion was also agreed to.
§ Lord Hawkesburysaid, that he should have to trouble the house with a few motions, which, in his opinion, would follow up and tend to give a more comprehensive effect to the motions which had just been submitted to the house by his noble friend. The object of them was, first, to obtain a return of the number to which the Volunteer Force of England and Ireland amounted, in the year 1804; and of the number that had been certified to be effectual. He should wish a similar return to be made of the state of the Volunteer Force for the year 1805. It must be obvious that the end he had in view, was to ascertain whether that force had diminished or increased; and how far it might be relied upon to form a part of our military system and means of defence. He was not aware that there could be any objections to these motions, but if there was, he should be ready to adopt any other less objectionable mode of framing them, which any noble lord would take the trouble to suggest.
§ Lord Grenvillefelt no desire to object to the motions; though, as they now stood worded, he did not well conceive how a satisfactory return could be made in consequence of them. Much would turn on the word "effective;" and a return in that view by the Inspecting Officer. The volunteer force should not be considered in the same light, or under the same regulations as our regular force. He himself, was an officer of Volunteers, and a member of parliament; but in neither capacity 592 did he know, that the efficiency of a volunteer corps depended upon the return of an Inspecting Officer. In the parliamentary sense of the word "efficient," as applied to a volunteer, all those were efficient, who had attended the number of days prescribed by the act of parliament, whether among those days of attendance was the day of inspection or not. The Inspecting Officer had no authority to compel the Volunteers of any corps to attend on such days, and it might happen, that fewer attended on the day of inspection than on ordinary days. Besides there were many reasons and circumstances, which when duly weighed, would, he was sure, dissuade the noble lord from pressing his motion in these words; for it would be imposssible for any Inspecting Officer to make any return respecting the greater or less number of efficient men, otherwise than by giving his opinion that such a particular corps was better disciplined than another. The noble lord would also recollect that the Irish Volunteer System was very different in its formation from that which prevailed in Great Britain. To make the same order for both must therefore be productive of confusion, and render it impossible to make any satisfactory return. He hoped, therefore, the noble lord would so word his motion, as to include only Great Britain, and to omit the return by the Inspecting Officer.
The Earl of Roslynobserved, that there might be such an infinite variety of shades of difference between the greater or less degree of perfection in discipline in this or that Volunteer Corps, that it would be utterly impossible to make any general return according to the word "efficient," in the sense in which he supposed the noble lord to understand it.
§ Lord Hawkesburycould see no difficulty in making the return, but he was still willing to adopt the amendment suggested, to omit Ireland, and to move only for the amount of the number of volunteers during the years he had mentioned, stating also the number that had been returned as efficient. —The question was then put on the motions so amended, and agreed to.