§ To the Right Honourable The Speaker of the House of Commons.
§ We, William Gorman, Knight, and William Lennox McNair, Knight, Judges of the High Court of Justice and two of the Judges on the Rota for the time being for the trial of Election Petitions in England and Wales
§ DO HEREBY CERTIFY in pursuance of the Representation of the People Act, 1949, that upon the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 21st, and 28th days of July, 1961, we duly held a Court at the Royal Courts of Justice London, for the trial of and did try the Election Petition for the Bristol, South East Constituency wherein Malcolm James St. Clair and John Malcolm Harris were the Petitioners, and Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, otherwise the 2nd Viscount Stansgate of Stansgate, was the Respondent
§ And in further pursuance of the said Act WE CERTIFY that at the conclusion of the said trial we determined.
- 1. that Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, otherwise 2nd Viscount Stansgate of Stansgate, was not duly elected or returned at the by-election for the Bristol, South East, Constituency held on 4th May, 1961, and
- 2. that Malcolm James St. Clair, one of the Petitioners herein, was duly elected at the aforesaid by-election
§ A copy of our Judgement and the proceedings before us taken by the Deputies of the Shorthand Writer to the House of Commons is sent herewith.
§ William Gorman,
§ William McNair.
§ Dated the 28th day of July, 1961.
§ Said Certificate ordered to be entered in the Journals of this House.
§ Copy of Shorthand Writer's Notes laid upon the Table by Mr. SPEAKER.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I apprehend that, as a result of this communication which you have been good enough to make known to us, a Motion may be moved. Am I right in thinking that that Motion is both debatable and amendable? In view of the fact that the Motion does not appear on the Order Paper and will be moved orally—if it is moved at all 944 now—will it be your pleasure to accept, if anyone should so move, an Amendment to that Motion?
§ Mr. SpeakerI am guided by precedent in this matter. In the particular circumstances attaching to this type of certificate, I cannot accept any amendment. The Motion to which the hon. Gentleman refers—supposing it to be a Motion to get the return amended—can be divided upon. In practice it is not, on the Rulings of my predecessors, debatable.
§ Mr. G. BrownFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Without a debate as one normally interprets that word, would not it at least be permissible to explain why one felt that one had to divide against the Motion?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman will understand that my difficulty is that, if I allow him or anyone else to state reasons—which would be out of order—I would be compelled to allow others to do so. I will not rule about it. I cannot until I hear the Motion, but both my predecessors who have ruled about this—in the form of Mr. Speaker Lowther and Mr. Speaker Morrison—encountered the same difficulty as I have. They did not see it as possible to say, in order, anything relevant on the Motion. That is the difficulty.
§ Mr. SilvermanFurther to that point of order. May I, with respect, explain why that Ruling would be very embarrassing to many hon. Members? The report from the Court consists of two parts. The first part says who is not elected.
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not think that I can, in fairness to others, hear the hon. Gentleman on this. Let us see how we get on.
§ Mr. SilvermanFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry to be persistent, but if there is to be no debate and no amendment to the Motion, but a Division, the House will be called upon to vote only once on a Motion which is in two parts. Some of us may be in favour of one part of the Motion and not of the other part, and we would, therefore, find it very embarrassing on the ground of duplicity to be called upon to vote singly on two quite separately distinct questions. That is the point.
§ Mr. SpeakerI can understand the hon. Gentleman's difficulty. I thought about this matter and looked at it in the light of precedents. It was on considering the precedents that I decided that I could not accept an Amendment to this Motion, should it be moved.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Martin Redmayne)I beg to move,
That the Clerk of the Crown do attend this House forthwith with the last return for Bristol, South East and amend the same by substituting the name of Malcolm Archibald James St. Clair for that of Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn as the Member returned for the said constituency.
§ Mr. G. BrownYou have ruled, Mr. Speaker, that this Motion is not amendable. It is not my desire to suggest that we should challenge the Court's decision on this. On the other hand, were this Motion to be carried, it would create a farcical situation in this House in that a young man would be entitled to sit here, having been rejected by more than 13,000 votes. It would be humiliating for him and intolerable to the electors of Bristol. For these reasons, I ask the House to divide straight away against the Motion.
§ Mr. J. GriffithsOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Could you tell us whether precedents would guide you and the House in a matter of this kind as to whether, when a Member has been declared elected by the Court, it is not in the best traditions of the House that he should immediately apply for the Chiltern Hundreds?
§ Mr. SpeakerI cannot tell the right hon. Gentleman that. I do know that when a Member has, by the procedure laid down by this House, been declared by the judges to have been duly elected, we have not done anything to get in his way in his right to come in and take his seat.
§ Mr. H. HyndMay we know whether this proposed new Member is an official of the E.T.U.?
§ Mr. S. SilvermanMay we have your ruling, Mr. Speaker, on whether the deci-
§ sion of the Election Court is binding upon the House, and, if it is not, whether we are entitled shortly to give any reason for not agreeing with it?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member is raising precisely the argument that he put to my predecessor in 1955, and it was in an endeavour to follow my predecessor's Ruling on that occasion that I said what I did. The House knows what the position is. The House makes its own Statute, in effect, as a constituent element in Parliament, and chooses to provide by Statute that the determination of the judges shall be final, to all intents and purposes. Not just myself in the Chair, but the House of Commons has a statutory duty to do what this Motion requires to be done. It is in those circumstances that my predecessors could not find anything relevant to be said in debating the Motion.
§ Mr. SilvermanFurther to that point of order. This, after all, is a momentous occasion. I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that it would be quite wrong to compel any hon. Member who is in difficulty about the form of the Motion—in agreement with part of it and not in agreement with the other part of it—to give a silent vote, either for the part he disagrees with, or against the part with which he does agree. But that is the position in which many of us will be. It is not in conformity with the dignity of the House that we should be compelled to adopt any position so utterly ridiculous and indefensible.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is very like what the hon. Member said last time, perhaps with a little more emphasis. I have considered the matter and I would gladly assist the hon. Member if I could, but I do not believe that it is within my power to do so. I cannot retreat from the situation that I am not willing to accept an Amendment to the Motion in those circumstances.
§ Question put:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 235, Noes 145.
949| Division No. 263.] | AYES | [4.22 p.m. |
| Agnew, Sir Peter | Balniel, Lord | Bovins, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Aitken, W. T. | Barlow, Sir John | Biggs-Davison, John |
| Allason, James | Batsford, Brian | Bingham, R. M. |
| Arbuthnot, John | Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Birch, Rt. Hon. Nigel |
| Ashton, Sir Hubert | Bell, Ronald | Bishop, F. P. |
| Black, Sir Cyril | Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel | Peel, John |
| Bossom, Clive | Heath, Rt. Hon. Edward | Plekthorn, Sir Kenneth |
| Box, Donald | Henderson-Stewart, Sir James | Pike, Miss Mervyn |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hon. John | Hicks Beach, Maj. W. | Pitt, Miss Edith |
| Boyle, Stir Edward | Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk) | Pott, Percivall |
| Brooman-White, R. | Hinchingbrooke, Viscount | Powell, Rt. Hon. J. Enoch |
| Browne, Percy (Torrington) | Hooking, Philip N. | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Bryan, Paul | Hoftingworth, John | Prior, J. M. L. |
| Buck, Antony | Homby, R. P. | Proudfoot, Wilfred |
| Bullard, Denys | Howard, John (Southampton, Teet) | Pym, Francis |
| Bullus, Wing Commander Eric | Hughes-Young, Michael | Quennell, Miss J. M. |
| Butcher, Sir Herbert | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Ramsden, James |
| Butler, Rt.Hn.R.A.(Saffron Walden) | Iremonger, T. L. | Rawlinson, Peter |
| Campbell, Sir David (Belfast, S.) | Jackson, John | Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin |
| Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) | James, David | Rees, Hugh |
| Carr, Compton (Barons Court) | Jennings, J. C. | Renton, David |
| Carr, Robert (Mitcham) | Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) | Ridley, Hon. Nicholas |
| Cary, Sir Robert | Johnson, Eric (Blackley) | Ridsdale, Jullan |
| Channon, H. P. G. | Johnson Smith, Geoffrey | Rippon, Geoffrey |
| Chataway, Christopher | Jones, Rt. Hn. Aubrey (Hall Green) | Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks) |
| Clark, Henry (Antrim, N.) | Kerans, Cdr. J. S. | Roots, William |
| Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) | Kerr, Sir Hamilton | Russell, Ronald |
| Cleaver, Leonard | Kershaw, Anthony | Sandys, Rt. Hon. Duncan |
| Cole, Norman | Kimball, Marcus | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Cooke, Robert | Kirk, Peter | Seymour, Leslie |
| Cooper, A. E. | Lancaster, Col. C. G. | Sharples, Richard |
| Cooper-Key, Sir Neill | Langford-Holt J. | Shaw, M. |
| Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. | Leather, E. H. C. | Shepherd, William |
| Corfield, F. V. | Leavey, J. A. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir Jocelyn |
| Costain, A. P. | Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry | Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Craddock, Sir Beresford | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'rd & Chiswick) |
| Critchley, Julian | Lilley, F. J. P. | Smithers, Peter |
| Crowder, F. P. | Lindsay, Martin | Smyth, Brig. Sir John (Norwood) |
| Cunningham, Knox | Linstead, Sir Hugh | Spearman, sir Alexander |
| Gurran, Charles | Litchfield, Capt. John | Stanley, Hon. Richard |
| Currie, G. B. H. | Lloyd,Rt.Hn.Geoffrey(Sut'nC'dfield) | Stodart, J. A. |
| Dance, James | Lloyd, Rt. Hon. Selwyn (Wirral) | Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm |
| Davies,Rt.Hn.Clement(Montgomery) | Longden, Gilbert | Studholme, Sir Henry |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Loveys, Walter H. | Talbot, John E. |
| Deedes, W. F. | Low, Rt. Hon. Sir Toby | Tapsell, Peter |
| Drayeon, G. B. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) |
| Duncan, Sir James | McAdden, Stephen | Taylor, W. J. (Bradford, N.) |
| Duthie, Sir William | MacArthur, Ian | Teeling, William |
| Eccles, Rt. Hon. Sir David | McLaren, Martin | Temple, John M, |
| Eden, John | Maclay, Rt. Hon. John | Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury) |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) | Maclean,SirFitzroy (Bute&N. Ayrs.) | Thompson, Kenneth (Walton) |
| Elliott,R.W.(Nwcstle-upon-Tyne,N.) | McMaster, Stanley R. | Thompson, Richard (Croydon, S.) |
| Ernery, Peter | Macmillan, Rt.Hn. Harold(Bromley) | Thorneycroft, Rt. Hon. Peter |
| Farey-Jones, F. W. | Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries) | Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin |
| Fell, Anthony | Maddan, Martin | Turner, Colin |
| Finlay, Graeme | Manningham-Buller, Rt. Hn. sir R. | Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H. |
| Fisher, Nigel | Marshall, Douglas | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) | Marten, Nell | Vane, W. M. F. |
| Freeth, Denzil | Mathew, Robert (Honiton) | Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Gammans, Lady | Maudling, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Vosper, Rt. Hon. Dennis |
| George, J. C. (Pollok) | Mawby, Ray | Walder, David |
| Glyn, Dr. Alan (Clapham) | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | Walker, Peter |
| Glyn, Sir Richard (Dorset, N.) | Maydon, Lt-Cmdr, S. L. c. | Walker-Smith, Rt. Hon. Sir Derek |
| Goodhart, Philip | Montgomery, Fergus | Ward, Dame Irene |
| Goodhew, Victor | More, Jasper (Ludlow) | Wells, John (Maidstone) |
| Cough, Frederick | Morgan, William | Whitelaw, William |
| Gower, Raymond | Mott-Radcliffe, Sir Charles | Williams, Dudley (Exeter) |
| Green, Alan | Nabarro, Geraid | Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.) |
| Grimston, Sir Robert | Nicholls, Sir Harmar | Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater) |
| Hall, John (Wycombe) | Nicholson, Sir Godfrey | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) |
| Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) | Noble, Michael | Wise, A. R. |
| Hare, Rt. Hon. John | Oakshott, Sir Hendria | Wotrige-Gordon, Patrick |
| Harris, Reader (Heston) | Orr, Capt. L. P. S. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Richard |
| Harrison, Brian (Maldon) | Osbom, John (Hallam) | Woodhouse, C. M. |
| Harvey, 8lr Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) | Osborne, Sir Cyril (Louth) | Woollam, John |
| Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) | Page, Graham (Crosby) | Worsley, Marcus |
| Harvie Anderson, Miss | Pannell, Norman (Kirkdale) | |
| Hastings, Stephen | Partridge, E. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Hay, John | Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) | Mr. Chichester-Clark and |
| Mr. Gibson-Watt. | ||
| NOES | ||
| Ainsley, William | Baxter, William (Stirlingshire, W.) | Brown, Alan (Tottenham) |
| Albu, Austen | Benson, Sir George | Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Beiper) |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Blackburn, F. | Butter, Herbert (Hackney, C) |
| Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Bowden, Herbert W. (Leics, S.W.) | Callaghan, James |
| Awbery, Stan | Bowles, Frank | Chetwynd, George |
| Bacon, Miss Alice | Braddock, Mrs. E, M. | Cliffe, Michael |
| Baird, John | Brockway, A. Fenner | Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) |
| Cronin, John | Irving, Sydney (Dartford) | Popplewell, Ernest |
| Crosland, Anthony | Janner, Sir Barnett | Rankin, John |
| Darling, George | Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas | Redhead, E. c. |
| Davies, Harold (Leek) | Jeger, George | Reynolds, G. W. |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Jenkins, Roy (Stechford) | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Davies, S. O, (Merthyr) | Jones. Rt. Hn.A. Creech(Wakefield) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Deer, George | Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) |
| Dodds, Norman | Jones, Elwyn (West Ham, S.) | Ross, William |
| Donnelly, Desmond | Ketley, Richard | Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E. |
| Driberg, Tom | Kenyon, Clifford | Short, Edward |
| Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John | Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. | Silverman, Julius (Aston) |
| Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Lipton, Marcus | Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) |
| Evans, Albert | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson | Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.) |
| Fletcher, Erio | McCann, John | Slater, Joseph (Sedgfield) |
| Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) | MacColl, James | Small, William |
| Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) | McKay, John (Walleend) | Sorensen, R. W. |
| Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. Hugh | McLeavy, Frank | Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank |
| Galpern, Sir Myer | MacPherson, Maloolm (Stirling) | Steele, Thomas |
| Ginsburg, David | Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) | Stewart, Michael (Fulham) |
| Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. G. | Manuel, A. C. | Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Vauxhall) |
| Greenwood, Anthony | Mapp, Charles | Stross,Dr.Bamett(Stoke-on-Trent,C) |
| Grey, Charles | Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. | Swlngler, Stephen |
| Griffiths, Rt. Hon. dames (Llanelly) | Marsh, Richard | Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) |
| Griffiths, W. (Exchange) | Mason, Roy | Taylor, John (west Lothian) |
| Grimond, J. | Mayhew, Christopher | Thorpe, Jeremy |
| Gunter, Ray | Mellish, R. J. | Tomney, Frank |
| Hate, Leslie (Oldham, W.) | Mendelson, J. J. | Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn |
| Hamilton, William (west Fife) | Milne, Edward J. | Wainwright, Edwin |
| Hannan, William | Mitchison, G. R. | Warbey, William |
| Hayman, F. H. | Monslow, Walter | Weitzman, David |
| Healey, Denis | Morris, John | White, Mrs. Elrene |
| Henderson, Rt.Hn.Arthur(RwlyRegis) | Moyle, Arthur | Whitlock, William |
| Herbison, Miss Margaret | Noel-Baker,Rt.Hn.Phi"p(Deroy,S.) | Wigg, George |
| Holman, Percy | Oliver, G. H. | Willey Frederick |
| Houghton, Douglas | Oram, A. E. | Williams, W. R. (Openshaw) |
| Howell, Charles A. (Perry Barr) | Owen, Will | Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton) |
| Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) | Pargiter, G. A. | Winterbottom, R. E. |
| Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, NO | Pavitt, Laurence | Woof, Robert |
| Hunter, A. E. | Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) | Yates, Victor (Ladywood) |
| Hynd, H. (Accrington) | Peart, Frederick | Zilliacus, K. |
| Hynd, John (Attercliffe) | Pentland, Norman | |
| Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) | Plummer, Sir Leslie | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Mr. Rogers and Mr. Lawsoo. |
§ The Clerk of the Crown thereupon attended at the Table and amended the return accordingly.