HC Deb 19 April 1921 vol 140 cc1705-7
32. Sir R. THOMAS

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that the total increase in the annual grants to the Scottish Universities for the year 1920–21 amounts to £81,000 and in the case of the three constituent colleges of the University of Wales to £16,000 and that, taking population as the basis of comparison, the increase in the case of Scotland is about 96 per cent. and in the case of Wales only 44 per cent., and that in the case of Scotland the increase is unconditional but in the case of Wales is an advance out of the Treasury equivalent for the 1d. rate which is to be raised by the Welsh county councils; whether he is aware that the University building grant in the case of Scotland was £248,000 and in the case of Wales £50,000 and that on the basis of population Wales is entitled to £89,200; and whether, in order to remove this injustice to Wales, he will bring immediate pressure on the Treasury to distribute these grants in an equitable manner?

Sir H. CRAIK

Before the hon. Gentleman answers this question may I ask if he is aware that the grants to the Scottish Universities are to a very large extent Statutory grants, made in return for revenues which belonged to the Universities, and which were commuted under the Act; and whether, therefore, he considers that they are altogether out of the range of comparison with grants made to other Universities in other parts of the Kingdom?

Lieut.-Commander YOUNG

The increased grants to the Scottish and Welsh Universities for the year 1920–21 are as the hon. Member states them, but a further sum of approximately £24,500 is due to the University of Wales under the £ for £ arrangement and will be paid immediately the levy of the 1d. rate throughout the Principality has been certified. The percentage increase over the previous year will then be Scotland 96 per cent. and Wales 111 per cent. The £ for £ arrangement is a special arrangement with the University of Wales made in order to stimulate local support to the University. Prior to the levy of the 1d. rate by the Welsh county councils the proportion of the income of the University of Wales which was derived from local sources was very far below the corresponding proportions in England and Scotland. I am not sure how the hon. Member has calculated the University building grant in Scotland as £248,000. No building grants have been made since the present University Grants Committee was appointed in 1919, and returns relating to earlier dates suggest a figure very much lower than that quoted. As regards the last part of the question, the assistance given to the University of Wales appears on any fair test to be, if anything, more favourable than that given to Scotland. On the basis of the number of full-time students in residence in 1919–20 (the last year for which statistics are available) the grant per student in Wales is more than twice the Scottish figure.

Sir H. CRAIK

Am I to understand that the Scottish grant bears only the relation of 93 per cent. to 111 per cent. of the Welsh grant, although within the Scottish grant there is included the statutory grant to which I have referred, which represents their own hereditary income?

Sir H. BRITTAIN

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that another University in the Empire, the McGill University, raised six million dollars in five days for its own increased expenditure?

Mr. HOGGE

Can the hon. Gentleman say why, in view of the fact that Wales gets so much more than Scotland, the results are so poor in Wales?

Lieut.-Commander YOUNG

I am only in a position to deal with the figures. Wales is getting not absolutely more than Scotland, but less. In reply to the right hon. Baronet (Sir H. Craik), it is not the direct relation between the Scottish and Welsh grants of 96 to 111, but the percentage increase on last year.

Sir R. THOMAS

Will the hon. Gentleman say why Wales should be penalised to the extent of pound for pound, in connection with this grant, whereas the Scottish grants are unconditional?

Lieut.-Commander YOUNG

I cannot admit anything in the nature of penalisation. Rather one would be inclined to say it is in the direction of benefit to Wales as a stimulus to local effort. I understand that this is an arrangement which was made on a common basis for that purpose of stimulating local effort in Wales.