HC Deb 26 October 1920 vol 133 cc1525-7
27. Mr. MILLS

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will reconsider the decision to discharge all workmen in Woolwich Arsenal who have attained the age of 60; and whether, having in mind the tribute paid to the time-keeping, ability, and productivity during the period of the War of these long-service men who have no pension to sustain them until the age of 70, he will allow them to serve until the usual age of 65?

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

Shortage of work necessarily involves a reduction of establishment at Woolwich. Consideration has been given to the different claims to retention of each class of employés, namely:—

  1. 1. Civilian war entrants.
  2. 2. Ex-soldiers.
  3. 3. Disabled.
  4. 4. Pre-war.
I am informed that each of these classes contains a number of indispensable men. Over and above selection by class must primarily come maintenance of the efficiency of the Arsenal. The application of the rule under which men upwards of 60 years of age may be called upon to retire with the bonus to which they may be entitled has been to a large extent in abeyance during the War, but in the present circumstances it is considered necessary to put it more actively into force Regard will, at the same time, be had to efficiency, and it is not intended to discharge all men over 60.

Mr. BARNES

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that many of these men of 60 are more efficient than the younger men, and that therefore there is a loss of efficiency and a loss of money to the State in discharging them?

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

I am not prepared to deny it, but, regard being had to efficiency, I presume such cases will be retained. In many cases the younger men have wives and children dependent on them and are not in a similar position to older men, whose families in many cases are doing for themselves. However the whole matter is being taken carefully into consideration with every regard to sympathy, but we must have efficiency before us as the first essential.

Mr. BARNES

May we take it that the sixty rule is not to be rigidly applied?

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

That is so.

Mr. W. THORNE

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are about 800 men involved in this question, and in consequence of the number of men who will be put off on Saturday, will he advise that the notices should be suspended until the deputation he promised to receive discusses the whole situation?

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

I am not sure about any notices expiring on Saturday. I will inquire. The matter has received very full consideration. If the hon. Member and the others who are associated with him wish to send a deputation, I suggest that the deputation should be a comprehensive one of all classes of workmen, and not confined to one particular class. The question of discharges is a very important one. There are now 5,000 more men in the Arsenal than before the War.

Mr. MILLS

I quite appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman is doing his best in the matter, but may I make a statement as to the deputation—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member has been long enough here to know that he must not now make explanations. He is entitled to ask a question.

Mr. THORNE

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a town meeting was called yesterday at Woolwich, organised by the men, and that a very large deputation was appointed at that meeting, and will he undertake to receive that deputation at the very earliest opportunity?

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

Yes, I am quite prepared to receive a deputation, but I think the deputation should embrace discharged soldiers and all other classes of all sections.

Mr. MILLS

I apologise for my rawness. I was merely going to ask if the right Hon. Gentleman on his part will take the initiative in seeing that the representatives of the ex-soldiers, who are doubly represented as ex-soldiers and also as part of the town meeting, are willing to accept an invitation to be represented all together.

Sir A. WILLIAMSON

I cannot undertake to do that. The deputation should make its own arrangements.