§ LORD BALOGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government on what basis the price paid by the Gas Council for North Sea gas was raised.]
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the contracts for natural gas produced from the Continental Shelf are a matter for negotiation between the Gas Council and the producing companies.
§ LORD BALOGHMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for his interesting reply. May I ask whether he is aware that the Russians are paying 1.8d. at the frontier for gas, that the Americans are paying below 2d. and that the old price of 2.87d. was far too high? Is he aware that the present price is going to do grave damage to our balance of payments and to the welfare of the country?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I am aware of some of these facts, but we have to bear in mind that this is a matter for the Gas Council to negotiate with the oil companies.
§ LORD BALOGHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the fact that, in case the Gas Council has difficulties with the oil companies, the Minister is responsible in the ultimate sense under the law to arbitrate and fix the price which seems to be adequate and just?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, everybody is agreed that, so far as possible, 758 with these nationalised Boards the matter should be left to the commercial judgment of the Boards.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in spite of the talks which the Minister of Power had with the nationalised boards the price of gas at the moment has gone up tremendously? It is about time the Minister took some form of action by having talks with the Gas Council in regard to this matter.
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the Ministers who are controlling these nationalised industries, or are in a position to have the ultimate say in what happens, must keep an eye on what happens. I am sure that your Lordships would not wish each Minister concerned to watch over what happens from day to day in the nationalised industries.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether it is a fact that in the case of the steel industry the Minister intervened with alacrity when prices were under discussion?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the steel industry is a little wide of this Question.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, with regard to the principle which my noble friend was arguing, the two industries are identical.
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, it has always been held, with regard to the relationship between Ministers and the nationalised industries, that it is up to the Minister concerned to decide to what extent it is necessary for him to come in.
§ LORD BALOGHMy Lords, with great respect to the noble Lord, is he aware that, contrary to what my noble friend said, the gas industry is a completely different and special case, because in law the Minister is responsible for arbitration between the oil companies and the Gas Council.
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, for arbitration. In this case, the Gas Council and the oil companies came to an agreement.