Engagements (Hansard, 2 July 2003)

§ Q1. Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset & North Poole)
If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 2 July.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Tony Blair)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I will have further such meetings later today.

§ Mrs. Brooke
What progress is being made in the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

§ The Prime Minister
The search for weapons of mass destruction, and evidence of the programmes, is being carried out by the Iraq survey group. It is some 1,200 strong and began its work a short time ago. It will be able to investigate all the sites, and interview all the witnesses and experts. We have already made it clear that the findings of the Iraq survey group should, of course, be publicly available.

§ Mr. Bill O'Brien (Normanton)
Has my right hon. Friend had the opportunity to consider the report published by the Institution of Civil Engineers on future energy production and supply in this country? In that report, criticism is made of the Department of Trade and Industry White Paper on energy supply, which would see the demise of the coal industry by 2016. By 2020, we would need to rely on imported fuels to the tune of 90 per cent. and that is obviously causing great concern in mining areas. Will my right hon. Friend agree to meet several Members who represent mining areas to discuss that important report?

§ The Prime Minister
Of course I will be happy to meet my hon. Friend and other Members from mining constituencies. I understand the concern that my hon. Friend mentions, but we have put substantial additional support into the mining industry in the past few years. It is important that we also maintain an energy supply that 375 is fully competitive. That is under discussion with my hon. Friend and other hon. Members at the present time.

§ Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green)
In 1998, the Deputy Prime Minister said that it was a "national disgrace" that one in 10 trains ran late. Can the Prime Minister tell us how many trains run late now?

§ The Prime Minister
The punctuality figures are worse since the Hatfield rail accident. Punctuality figures until Hatfield were stable for several years. After Hatfield, it was recognised that the state of the rail infrastructure required a massive amount of additional investment. That is why, over the next 10 years, we will roughly double the amount of public and private investment in the railways.

§ Mr. Duncan Smith
They have not just got worse: they are twice as bad as when the Deputy Prime Minister said that they were a "national disgrace". One in five trains now run late—twice as bad. No wonder the CBI said today that performance on the railways has yet to return to the levels of the late 1990s". Exactly how long will it take to get back to those levels?

§ The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that rail punctuality has not returned to the levels of the late 1990s. That is for the very reason that the CBI give and that I have just given—after the Hatfield rail disaster it was recognised that the state of the rail infrastructure was infinitely worse than we supposed. That was as a result of years of underinvestment in our rail infrastructure, which we are now putting right. We are set virtually to double the amount of public and private investment in our railways. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will now say whether he agrees with the commitment that we have given to the extra spending, because the only way to achieve a better performance on the railways is for that investment to be made. We are committed to it. Is he?

§ Mr. Duncan Smith
As ever, the Prime Minister blames everybody else when the Government fail. Network Rail has said that it will take until 2010—that is seven more years—just to get back to what the Government inherited. It is going to cost £58 billion just to get things back to where they were when the Government came to office. That is another example of taxpayers paying more and getting less. The part-time Transport Secretary now seems to think that things have to get worse before they can get better. I do not recall the British people being aware of the campaign song that said, "Things can only get worse." Is that not another reason why nobody believes a word that the Prime Minister says anymore?

§ The Prime Minister
Railway punctuality has got worse post-Hatfield for the very simple reason that I have given, which is also the reason that the CBI gave. The combination of underinvestment over many years and a catastrophic privatisation implemented by the previous Conservative Government have given us this situation. However, the right hon. Gentleman is right to 376 say that it will take billions of pounds of extra investment over the next few years to put matters right. Everybody agrees about that, but that is investment that we are committed to and he is opposed to. I gave him an opportunity a moment or two ago to say categorically whether he was in favour of this extra investment. He quoted the CBI, which says that it supports the 10-year plan and wants that investment to go in. That is our position, and the CBI position. Is it his? [Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I call Richard Burden.

§ Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield)
My right hon. Friend will be aware that a short while ago Alstom announced that it had secured a multi-million pound order for tube trains in London. It followed that announcement by saying that it was going to bring to an end 150 years of train production at its Birmingham factory, threatening more than 1,000 jobs. On the day that workers from Alsthom are going to France to say that they are not prepared to have their jobs go down the tube in this way, I ask my right hon. Friend to back them.

§ The Prime Minister
First of all, I understand my hon. Friend's concern and anxiety for his constituents. He will understand that the Department of Trade and Industry is willing to meet representatives of the company and of the unions at the plant, and of course my hon. Friend, to see what we can do. In the end, these are decisions that have to be taken by the company, but we will give whatever help we possibly can to my hon. Friend's constituents. At the present time, we are in discussions with the company about its restructuring plans. I hope that we can get a positive outcome.

§ Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Inverness, West)
In his evidence to the Foreign Affairs Committee, the Foreign Secretary said that the claim that Iraq could launch weapons of mass destruction within 45 minutes was not in the original draft of the dossier released by the Government. However, the very next day, Alastair Campbell contradicted that, and said that it was in "the very first draft". Will the Prime Minister please clarify once and for all which version of events is correct?

§ The Prime Minister
In fact, the matter was clarified. The clarification is this: in the first draft presented by the Joint Intelligence Committee, the 45 minutes claim was there. The allegation that the claim was inserted by anyone in No. 10 Downing street or any Minister is completely and totally incorrect. The right hon. Gentleman has been backing that claim. If he has evidence to support the claim that we inserted intelligence into the dossier, let him now state the basis for that allegation.

§ Mr. Kennedy
rose—

Hon. Members
Come on!

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. There should be no shouting.

§ Mr. Kennedy
The Prime Minister is aware that the Foreign Secretary—elected and accountable to this House—gave one version of events, and that an 377 unelected member of staff in his No. 10 office gave a different version of events. Does the Prime Minister not agree that the best way to clarify the matter, once and for all, would be for him to go to that Committee and spell out exactly what happened?

§ The Prime Minister
It actually has been clarified. The Foreign Affairs Committee will make its report and the Intelligence and Security Committee will make its report. They have been given the fullest possible co-operation by the Government. I repeat, as I have from the very beginning, that the claim—it is a perfectly simple claim—that, contrary to the advice and insistence of the security services, the 45-minute claim was inserted in the dossier last September is completely untrue. Let me repeat once again: if anyone actually has any evidence, let them produce it. I think that before a claim of that seriousness is made, at least some evidence should be produced.

§ Mr. Michael Clapham (Barnsley, West and Penistone)
May I reinforce what my hon. Friend the Member for Normanton (Mr. O'Brien) said? I heard my right hon. Friend's answer that he is willing to meet a delegation of mining MPs, but in the meantime, will he consider whether he should declare the deep coal industry a strategic reserve and that there should be no future colliery closures, including that proposed for Selby?

§ The Prime Minister
I am afraid I cannot give my hon. Friend that assurance or guarantee. It is important, especially now that the industry is in private hands, that we balance its interests as a whole with those of the energy supply of the country. As I said, over the past few years we have put a large sum of money into supporting the coal industry. We are working with the industry to see that it has a viable future. I shall be delighted to meet my hon. Friend and other representatives from mining constituencies, but we have to be careful about giving completely open-ended commitments to any industry.

§ Q2. Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere)
Last Monday's vote on hunting could have a very bad effect on the rural economy. Will the Prime Minister at least clarify his own position? Will the Government use the Parliament Act if the House of Lords amends the Hunting Bill so as to reject a total ban?

§ The Prime Minister
On the Parliament Act, I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Minister for Rural Affairs and Local Environmental Quality has already said. I supported the compromise proposals that he put forward; it is now for the other House to consider the Hunting Bill.

§ Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside)
I welcome the progress that is being made on the road map to peace in the middle east. Does the Prime Minister agree that if real peace is to be achieved, the Palestinians and other Arabs must stop preaching hatred of Jews in Israel and around the world? What representations has the Prime Minister made to the current Defence Minister of Syria who has written: The Jew can kill you and take your blood in order to make your Zionist bread"?

§ The Prime Minister
In general terms, my hon. Friend's point is right. It is a point that we make to Arab countries and, indeed, to representatives of the Palestinian Authority. It is important that we get the peace process under way. There was a lot of scepticism about whether we could make progress in the middle east, but I think that people now understand that there is that real and genuine possibility and that we must have a reduction of hatred and tension on all sides. That certainly includes the abolition of sources of incitement to racial hatred, such as those mentioned by my hon. Friend.

§ Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green)
With the World Trade Organisation meeting fast approaching, does the Prime Minister agree that the best way to raise living standards in the developing world is to reduce tariff barriers and to promote free trade?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, of course I do; that is precisely the position of the Government.

§ Mr. Duncan Smith
Does the Prime Minister also agree that the negotiations to achieve that must be balanced? Many of the poorest countries feel that they are outgunned by richer countries in those negotiations, and as a result they have not been able to benefit from the growth in free trade. At the last WTO round, the EU had more than 500 experts on their side, whereas many of the poorest countries had literally nobody to represent them. Will the Prime Minister consider establishing a specific advocacy fund to make sure that the poorest countries can make their voice heard?

§ The Prime Minister
First of all, of course, I entirely agree that the reduction of tariffs is immensely important. I actually welcomed the deal that was done in the Agriculture Council; I pay tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in negotiating it. It is important that Europe plays its part, with other countries, in making sure that tariffs are reduced. It is also important, incidentally, that we put that alongside a series of measures, such as increased aid and development, and this country, under this Government, has reversed the policy of the previous Government and has been putting investment into aid and development.
Of course it is important that we give developing countries whatever help we can. I am perfectly happy to look at the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion, but many of the countries that are going to the WTO would regard it as their position to ensure for themselves that they have the right advocacy.

§ Mr. Duncan Smith
That is exactly the point. The reality is that, as I said last time, more than 500 EU advisers swamped all the poorer countries. I understand from what the Prime Minister has just said that he has now agreed to look at the policy that the Conservative party has been promoting for some time—[Interruption.] Oh yes, the Prime Minister has now 379 undertaken to try to adopt our policy because, last week, his own DFID Minister dismissed—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Allow the right hon. Gentleman to speak.

§ Mr. Duncan Smith
The Prime Minister is not aware that, last week, his own DFID Minister dismissed the whole idea, so I am glad that he has done a U-turn to accept our policy. Real trade and real justice mean access to free trade, and I hope that the Prime Minister accepts that.

§ The Prime Minister
Let us be clear: over the years that the Conservative party was in office, the aid and development budget of this country fell, as a proportion of our national income; it is now rising every year under this Government. It is this Government who have been leading the way on third-world debt, and it is this Government who secured at the Agriculture Council, by qualified majority voting, the ability to make sure that we can give a decent offer from Europe at the WTO in September. When the right hon. Gentleman goes on about the 500 EU advocates, why is it that I sort of think that he is more interested in making a point about the EU than about the developing world?

§ Mr. Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester)
As a scientist at heart, may I ask my right hon. Friend to join me in paying tribute to scientists in the House and, indeed, across the country—people involved in engineering and technology—and the role that they play in our economy? What measures will he take to enhance the science, technology and innovation base?

§ The Prime Minister
The point that my hon. Friend makes is absolutely vital for the future of this country. We have increased science investment from the Government and with the private sector up to £2 billion, rising to £3 billion, over the next few years. That will play an absolutely vital part in making sure that our industry is competitive for the future. I pay tribute to the work that British scientists do. I can tell my hon. Friend that, with 1 per cent. of the world's population, we now fund 5 per cent. of the science, and that is a good omen for the future of industry and science in this country.

§ Q3. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby)
Does the Prime Minister think it appropriate that a senior Minister should insult our armed forces by saying that all soldiers are boneheads; have a benefit in kind worth £12,000 a year, contrary to the ministerial code, and unregistered, contrary to the advice of the Standards and Privileges Committee; assault members of the general public; use foul language in front of House of Commons staff, while breaking the rules of the House; and all because he arrogantly believes that the rules only apply to the little people? When will the Prime Minister sack the Deputy Prime Minister? Or does he believe that, at 65, he should be the first beneficiary of the new policy on ageism?

§ The Prime Minister
I will tell the House what I believe. I believe that the best commitment from a Government to our armed forces is not visiting 20 per cent. cuts, which is 380 what was implemented by the previous Government—[Interruption]—yes—but delivering the first real-terms increase in defence spending for more than 10 years: this side's record; that side's shame.

§ Mr. Ian Davidson (Glasgow, Pollok)
Will the Prime Minister join me in welcoming the Tory discovery of world poverty, which is only fair because they caused much of it? Is he aware of the events that took place last weekend in my constituency and others, sponsored and organised by those in the trade justice movement—Oxfam, Christian Aid, the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund and other organisations—who called for the Government to do more to assist the third world, even though they recognise that this Government have taken the lead in many of those matters? I have here a petition, signed by thousands of my constituents. Will the Prime Minister undertake to give me a reply, explaining what more the Government are doing?

§ The Prime Minister
We will continue to try to get the best possible offer, not just from Europe but from other developed countries, at the World Trade Organisation in September. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend's point about the importance of free trade for the developing world. We believe that a good WTO round could add something in the region of $150 billion to wealth in the world as a whole. Of course, it is extremely important to recognise that we will only get a decent deal out of Europe by being constructively engaged in Europe. It is as a result of being engaged, forming the right alliances and having, at the Agriculture Council, qualified majority voting, that we managed to get the deal that we did.

§ Q4. Mr. Andrew Rosindell (Romford)
In view of the White inquiry into Islington child abuse scandals of the 1980s and 1990s, which described Islington council as a chaotic organisation that breeds the conditions for dangerous and negligent practices in relation to child care, does the Prime Minister really think that his appointment as Minister for Children is well advised?

§ The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend the Minister for Children was, of course, the Minister with responsibility for early years from 1998 to 2001. Let me tell the hon. Gentleman what she accomplished: free education for all four-year-olds—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I tell the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner) that he has a habit of shouting, particularly at Prime Minister's Question Time. He will not do it.

§ The Prime Minister
Those accomplishments were free education for all four-year olds—now 88 per cent. of three-year-olds—647,000 new child care places, and the development of the sure start programme, which, in constituencies across this country, is doing an immense amount for young people. That is a record of which she and we can be proud.

§ Q5. Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside)
Last summer, my constituent David Holloway was knocked down and killed by a coach while making his way from 381 one of Ibiza's popular clubs to his hotel. He was one of many British victims to die on Spanish roads. The road from San Antonio to Ibiza town has no pavements and is poorly lit, and has a speed limit of 75 mph. Will the Prime Minister assure the House that he will do all in his power to approach the Spanish authorities to improve road safety in Spain so that young British lives are not lost?

§ The Prime Minister
First, I take this opportunity to offer my deepest sympathy and condolences to Mr. Holloway's family. I understand that this matter has been investigated by the Spanish police and considered by a Spanish court. I can tell my hon. Friend that we have made representations about this particular road, and in 2001, local authorities introduced certain changes as a result of the matters that we raised. I will undertake to look at the matter again, however, in the light of what my hon. Friend has said.

§ Q6. Mr. Alan Reid (Argyll & Bute)
Pensioners who want to have their pensions paid through a Post Office account have to go through a long and complicated process. One of the steps is to phone the rather sinisterly named customer conversion centre. When pensioners phone, the first thing that they are told is, "Yes, I know you want to open a Post Office card account, but …" Is not the whole process designed to drive pensioners away from the post office? Will the Prime Minister intervene to simplify the process and start publicising the Post Office account positively? Otherwise, many small rural post offices will be forced to close.

§ The Prime Minister
We do publicise the account positively. The hon. Gentleman will also understand, however, that many pensioners and many people nowadays prefer to receive the money in their bank account. Precisely for that reason, however, we have invested a very large sum of money in working with post offices to ensure that those who still want to get their money at the post office can do so. In the end, however, it is right to say that over a long period there has been a trend towards people receiving the money in their bank account, and it would be wrong to force people to receive it at the post office. We must enable them to do it, and we are doing so.

§ Q7. Mr. Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
Last week, this House passed a Bill to address various aspects of antisocial behaviour, including fly tipping and, through a late amendment, illegal camping—a particular bane of the South Derbyshire constituency. Did my right hon. Friend share my puzzlement that the Bill did not receive a wider welcome in the House, and will he share the welcome that it has been given by my constituents?

§ The Prime Minister
First, since I was previously asked a question by a Liberal Democrat, I think that it is extraordinary that the Liberal Democrats opposed many of the measures in the Anti-social Behaviour Bill. The whole purpose of the Bill is to give the police the power to deal with antisocial behaviour quickly and effectively through the use of fixed penalty notices and limitations on airguns and spray paints, for example. It 382 is absolutely vital that that range of measures is put into place because it will make a significant difference to dealing with antisocial behaviour on our streets.

§ Q8. Mr. Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire)
Does the Prime Minister share my concern that figures given to me today by Worcestershire county council show that because of the growing revenue funding gap between Worcestershire and the national average, bringing our schools' staffing ratios in line with the national average would require 30 more teachers and 400 more support staff? Does that sound as if Worcestershire schools are getting a fair deal?

§ The Prime Minister
Surely the hon. Gentleman would also want to point out that since we came to office, there are in fact about 200 more teachers, 500 more support staff and 250 more teaching assistants. Indeed, Worcestershire local education authority has allocated an extra £500 per pupil in real terms compared with 1997–98. I agree that we can always do more, but surely the policy that he proposes, which opposes such extra investment and would make 20 per cent. cuts across the board, is not going to help.

§ Lawrie Quinn (Scarborough and Whitby)
Has my right hon. Friend had an opportunity to study the report by Sheffield Hallam university on the seaside economy? Is he aware of the all-party seminar that was held at the Treasury yesterday? What contribution can he make to be a champion for seaside communities such as Scarborough and Whitby to ensure that every part of this country benefits from the policies that this Government promote, which are in stark contrast to the years of decline under the previous Government?

§ The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend's point about seaside towns is obviously true because many parts of seaside towns suffer from high levels of unemployment and poor housing. That is why it is important that through elements such as the new deal, the working families tax credit and the new children's tax credit, we continue to invest in those communities and others. As a result of that additional investment, we have at least managed to reduce unemployment in his constituency and many others, which is why it would be so unfortunate if the Conservative party were able to scrap those measures.

§ Q9. Mr. George Osborne (Tatton)
Following the Sally Clark and Trupti Patel cases, will the Prime Minister confirm that the Crown Prosecution Service will review all cases in which the evidence of Professor Roy Meadow helped to secure a conviction? Will he instigate a broader inquiry on the way in which the criminal justice system deals with mothers who are accused of murdering their infant children?

§ The Prime Minister
I understand from my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary that the procedures are being reviewed. Perhaps I could investigate exactly what the review entails and write to the hon. Gentleman rather than giving him an answer off the top of my head. Of course, I understand the concern that has been voiced as a result of the case, and we plainly need to ensure that procedures are in line with what the public would 383 expect. My right hon. Friend says that such a review is being undertaken, and I undertake to write to the hon. Gentleman with details of it.

§ Q11. Mr. Mike Hall (Weaver Vale)
My right hon. Friend will be aware of major problems caused by youths who recklessly ride their scrambler bikes on parks and open spaces. May I advise him that in the Northwich part of my constituency last week, the police were able to apprehend the leader of a gang of bike riders? They arrested him, confiscated his bike and drove it around the estate so that everybody could see it. That was an excellent operation by the police in Northwich and Halton. Will my right hon. Friend reassure the House that we will give the necessary resources and power to the police and local authorities so that we may continue to bear down on antisocial behaviour?

§ The Prime Minister
I know that my hon. Friend raises a matter of deep concern to many hon. Members, especially Labour Members. There is now the ability to confiscate bikes, which will form an important part of the new measures that come into place. Talking to police officers shows that they believe that the combination of powers to close down crack houses and take action against juveniles in respect of airguns, spray paints and bicycles, and the ability to use fixed penalty notices without the whole hassle of having to go to court, will make a significant difference to our local communities. 384 Along with the much simpler procedures for antisocial behaviour orders, they amount to a substantial package. [HON. MEMBERS: "Get on with it."] I tell Conservative Members that there is no bigger issue in our communities than dealing with this problem.

§ Q12. Mr. Bill Wiggin (Leominster)
The Prime Minister is aware of the dramatic drop in the number of beds in Hereford hospital, but if I send him the letter that I have before me, will he look into the case of my constituent, Donald Jaques, whose ECG test was stopped when it became clear that he had a serious coronary problem, only to return to his GP to be told that he had to wait 10 months for a proper coronary angiogram? Will the Prime Minister please look into that real problem?

§ The Prime Minister
I will certainly look into the individual case and will correspond with the hon. Gentleman on it. But before we leave the subject of cardiac care in the health service, I know he would want to acknowledge the dramatic increase in the number of heart operations performed in this country and the huge amount being done in cardiac and, indeed, cancer care. For that reason, there has been a significant drop in the number of deaths from heart disease in this country over the past few years. If what the hon. Gentleman describes is correct, it is obviously a serious situation, but it should not be taken as a general comment on the health service. The fact is that the vast majority of people get extremely good treatment within our national service today.