§ 5. Mr. Nick St. Aubyn (Guildford)When he last met representatives of the NUS in Scotland. [87518]
§ The Secretary of State for Scotland (Dr. John Reid)I have not met representatives of the National Union of Students in Scotland recently. In view of the transfer of powers on 1 July, it might be more appropriate if representatives of the Scottish Executive meet them in future.
§ Mr. St. AubynGiven that the number of school leavers from England, Wales and Northern Ireland applying to Scottish universities has clearly decreased, and given that the majority of Scottish people voted in the recent election for parties that are clearly committed to changing the rules on tuition fees, will the Minister's party support a free vote in the Scottish Parliament on the tuition fees issue following the independent inquiry? Will the Government in London respect the results of that free vote?
§ Dr. ReidThe voting procedures of any party in the Scottish Parliament are a matter for that party. That gives a laxity and a freedom to individuals in those parties, which is precisely why the hon. Gentleman's Tory colleagues in the Scottish Parliament are supporting 125 proportional representation to the hilt. I assume that the hon. Gentleman supports the right of his Tory colleagues to do so.
I have made our position on tuition fees clear. Unlike the Conservatives, we want a massive expansion of higher and further education that will be funded. In order to achieve that, we think it is reasonable that those who have an above-average income—that is, more than £18,000 a year—should make some contribution. It is a fact that more than 70 per cent. of those in further education in Scotland pay, and will pay, no tuition fees. It is a fact that more than 50 per cent. of applicants to Scottish universities this year will pay no tuition fees. It is also a fact that Scotland has the highest attendance rates in the country for higher and further education.
The Government intend to ensure that we extend to a generation of young people the opportunities that were denied to those of the same economic and social backgrounds in the past. That is the socially just and decent thing to do. [Interruption.] That is the Government's position. The Scottish Parliament, as a devolved body, is entitled to take a different view if it so wishes. The Administration in Scotland—the partnership that controls the Scottish Parliament—have decided that they will review the matter. A decision will be taken and the obligation will be on the Scottish Parliament to explain to Scottish people where the money will come from if it decides to find a funding alternative to tuition fees. That is how devolution works, and I am afraid that—however uncomfortable it may be for the hon. Gentleman—that is the devolution settlement that is supported by the vast majority of people in Scotland.
§ Ms Sandra Osborne (Ayr)Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if parties in the Scottish Parliament decide to abolish tuition fees, it is highly likely that the money will have to come from other areas of education, much to the detriment of the children of Scotland?
§ Dr. ReidThe Scottish Parliament, like this Parliament, works within financial guidelines. If the Parliament in Scotland decides—as it is entitled to do—that it has greater priorities or different priorities from those of this Parliament and allocates money in that direction, it must obtain that funding from elsewhere. That is the nature of devolution and the right of the Scottish Parliament. The Parliament also has the responsibility to explain those decisions to the people of Scotland who elect its Members. That is what Scottish Members of Parliament do here for our reserved matters, and Members of the Scottish Parliament will explain decisions on matters that have been devolved to that Parliament.
§ Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)First, I must thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind greeting to me. To return to tuition fees and the question asked by the hon. Member for Ayr (Ms Osborne), what provision has the right hon. Gentleman made, or might he consider making, for the possibility that the commission of inquiry will decide that tuition fees in Scotland should be abolished, particularly in view of the fact that the hon. Lady clearly considers that Scotland has been financially hamstrung by the Government's decision to abolish those tuition fees before devolution took place?
§ Dr. ReidThe provision that is made for the Scottish Parliament's expenditure priorities is in the block grant. 126 If the Scottish Parliament decides—this is the essence of devolution—that it wants to spend more money on a certain area, in contradistinction to what we are doing here, it must explain that it is taking that money from another area. That is a simple concept and I should have thought that, even in the early days of his tenure in office, the hon. Gentleman would be able to grasp it—it is called devolution.