HC Deb 19 May 1998 vol 312 cc733-40 3.30 pm
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Derek Fatchett)

With permission, Madam Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the current situation in Indonesia.

Our top priority remains to ensure the safety of British citizens in Indonesia. Throughout the recent unrest, the embassy has kept in close touch with the British community through the warden system and through regularly updated travel advice. That advice has also been broadcast by the BBC World Service. Emergency telephone lines have been set up in Jakarta to provide up-to-date information 24 hours a day.

Advice to resident British nationals caught up in the unrest has been kept under constant review. From Friday 15 May, Britons were advised to consider leaving Indonesia. Early this morning, in view of the latest political developments and the demonstrations expected on 20 May, we issued advice that British citizens should leave Indonesia, preferably avoiding travel on 20 May. At our ambassador's request, an additional British Airways 747 flight has been arranged by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, leaving Jakarta later today for Kuala Lumpur. Other scheduled flights are also available.

British citizens with safe access to the airport were advised to make their own way there, where an embassy team will be available at the British Airways office to give advice. The embassy also chartered a fleet of buses to transport British citizens from central Jakarta. As an extra precaution, a police escort was requested and provided.

We were greatly saddened by the tragic death of a British citizen in Jakarta on 14 May. Our deepest sympathy goes out to his family. The motive appears to have been robbery, as the evidence suggests that the death was unrelated to the political violence. We have asked the Indonesian police for investigation reports as a matter of urgency. We have also heard rumours of the possible death of a second British national, but that has not yet been confirmed. Our embassy in Jakarta is working in extremely difficult circumstances to try to establish the full facts.

I would like to thank the staff of our embassy in Jakarta for their hard work in the face of enormous difficulties and a very unpredictable political situation. They, and many of their spouses, have been working tirelessly round the clock since 14 May to help the local British community. Many of them also have dependants in Indonesia to worry about. Although their work is not yet over, I would like to take this opportunity to thank them now for their continuing efforts and their support to the British community. We are also very grateful to British Airways, and especially to Claire Hatton and her staff in Jakarta, for their great efforts to help many Britons leaving Indonesia.

The situation in Indonesia is changing very rapidly. President Suharto told the Indonesian people in a television address today that there will be general elections as soon as possible and that he will not stand again. We call on the Government of Indonesia to ensure that the new elections are free and fair. Political reforms are needed that will do justice to the aspirations of the people of Indonesia. The tragic violence that we have witnessed over the past week must be stopped, before more innocent lives are claimed. We urge Indonesia to introduce the necessary changes quickly, so that calm and stability can be restored.

The British Government have been following developments in Indonesia closely over recent months. Ministers have made our concerns clear to the Indonesian authorities. I visited Jakarta in March, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was also in Indonesia at the beginning of this month. He took the opportunity then to underline the importance of political and economic reform. Together with our European Union partners, we issued a statement on 13 May calling on the authorities to exercise maximum restraint and to respect individual rights. That message has been conveyed to the Indonesian authorities through our embassy in Jakarta. I summoned the Indonesian ambassador on 13 May.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister took the opportunity of the G8 summit to discuss the situation in Indonesia. As the House knows, leaders called on the Government of Indonesia to refrain from using lethal force and to initiate political reform. We have stressed the importance of political and economic reform. The two are now essential to recovery in Indonesia. I am sure that the House will want to support the Government in calling for peaceful transition in Indonesia.

Mr. Michael Howard (Folkestone and Hythe)

I am grateful to the Minister for the way in which he gave me advance notice of his statement. I join him in expressing deep sympathy with the family of the British citizen who was killed in Jakarta on 14 May. I express also my sympathy with the families of other nationals, including Indonesians, who have lost their lives in the tragic disturbances.

The Minister was right to thank the staff of our embassy in Jakarta and of British Airways. I would particularly like to associate myself with his tribute to Claire Hatton, the British Airways employee who kept her office open throughout the disturbances and helped some 2,000 people to leave the country.

I agree with the Minister on the importance of early, free and fair elections and of respecting human rights in Indonesia. Have the Government offered any assistance for the conduct of those elections? What consultations have the Government had with Indonesia's regional neighbours? In the light of events, does he think that the package of assistance offered by the International Monetary Fund and the World bank, and the terms on which it was offered, were well judged? What action, if any, have the Government taken to ensure that the assistance from those bodies is reviewed in the light of these events? Will the Government pay particular attention to the warnings given by the Government of Australia on these questions, to which I drew the attention of the Foreign Office some two months ago?

Finally, will the Minister comment on the Foreign Secretary's statement last week that none of the British-made vehicles used by the Indonesian Government has been exported since Labour came to power? Does he associate himself with the explanation of the Foreign Office spokesman that that statement was made during a compressed interview that made it difficult to go into the sort of depth that this complex issue requires, or will he be more forthcoming and simply say that the Foreign Secretary got it wrong again?

Mr. Fatchett

I thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for his early remarks. He is right to express sympathy not only to UK nationals but to those of other countries caught up in these events. I share his congratulations and thanks to Claire Hatton, British Airways staff and embassy staff. We are grateful for all their work on behalf of UK citizens. I agree that we need early, fair elections in Indonesia. I am not optimistic that they will take place, but I agree that we should continue to push in that direction and to urge on the Indonesian Government a greater respect for human rights and a great improvement in their record.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman asked three specific questions. We have as yet had no request for assistance with elections, but if we were convinced that there would be free and fair elections in Indonesia, we would be willing to play a part, in the way in which Britain and the European Union have on other occasions. We have been in constant contact with Indonesia's regional neighbours. The right hon. and learned Gentleman knows that, as part of the EU presidency, I visited Indonesia's neighbours a few weeks ago, as did my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman asked about the IMF programme. I think that the worst possible sign that we could give to the Suharto regime, and the worst possible way of developing human rights and democracy in Indonesia, would be to give the impression that that programme is now negotiable. The programme is important, to lever in political and economic reform. Without that, there will be no accountability and transparency, and those are developments that we desperately need in Indonesia.

Finally, the right hon. and learned Gentleman referred to export licences. I am always impressed and intrigued by his brazen audacity at the Dispatch Box. It might be worth while reminding the House that no equipment used in recent events has been licensed since 1 May 1997. All the equipment used to which attention has been drawn was licensed by Conservative Members, and it is about time that that party took responsibility for what is happening in Indonesia.

Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington)

If a new Indonesian regime were to apply to the Government to freeze the assets of the Suharto family here, on the basis that those assets had been illegally transferred from Indonesia, would my hon. Friend look favourably on such an application?

Mr. Fatchett

My hon. Friend raises a number of hypothetical issues that may well become important as developments take place. I can say that we shall support the principle of accountability and transparency not merely in Indonesia, but here in the United Kingdom if that is relevant.

Dr. Jenny Tonge (Richmond Park)

Does not the Minister think it a bit rich to call on the Indonesian Government to refrain from using lethal force now, despite this Government's ethical foreign policy, which, frankly, has carried on the policy of the previous Government and that was repeating Baroness Chalker's mantra that arms should not be sold that could be used for internal repression? Does he realise that, tomorrow, when the student demonstration takes place, students are likely to be killed and maimed using British riot control agents, British nerve gases, British batons and British water cannon?

Mr. Fatchett

It is absolutely right to urge restraint on the Indonesian authorities. I do not think that any hon. Member would take a different view, and any movement towards democracy and respect for human rights in Indonesia would be a step in the right direction; we would all support that.

The hon. Lady seems not to have done her homework as she normally does. To aim her criticism at the Labour Benches rather than the Conservative Benches is a mistake on her part. I repeat that the water cannon, to take the example that she used, was equipment licensed under the previous Government. It is about time that the hon. Lady looked at what happened and clearly differentiated between the record of this Government and that of the previous Administration.

Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)

What Baroness Chalker actually said was that once one sends weapons to a country such as Indonesia, one cannot possibly monitor their end use. Why did we not revoke the licences given by the previous Government when we had the opportunity to do so last year—when our policy states clearly that we will not sell arms for internal repression? It is true that the licences granted by the previous Government are responsible for the use of British-made water cannon on the streets in Indonesia against unarmed students as recently as April. Why, despite all the knowledge that we were propping up a rotten, corrupt regime, which was responsible for the most terrible human rights abuses, did we still not revoke those licences?

Since May last year, we have agreed another 56 licences for all sorts of military equipment which, in 18 or 24 months' time, might be used on the streets in Indonesia. It really is not good enough to say that we are not responsible for the equipment that is being used now, when, in 18 months' time, equipment that we have supplied may also be used against the very same people who are now fighting for democracy and human rights on those streets.

Mr. Fatchett

I very much respect my hon. Friend's views and know that she has a long-standing interest in Indonesia and developments there. She is absolutely right to make the differentiation she made in terms of licences. The new licence criteria that were introduced last July, despite Conservative opposition, are tougher, and it is now extremely difficult to imagine that the Labour Government would ever grant a licence for, for example, water cannon; that would simply not happen. My hon. Friend points the finger and lays the responsibility exactly where that responsibility rests.

Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is readily apparent, even from only watching newsreels, that the spectrum of demonstration and violence extends from students, protesting as students sometimes will, to criminal elements, who are frankly exploiting the situation; that that is something which we have seen in Europe, for example, in France in the 1960s; and that it is not simply an Indonesian phenomenon? Whatever President Suharto's shortcomings as a Westminster democrat may be, the record will show that, judged in the context of the country within which he operates, he has raised the condition of his people, and history might come to a slightly different judgment from the one being expressed here today. In short, is not the situation a great deal more complicated than many hon. Members and some commentators think?

Finally, it is the Minister's position that he had no choice but to go ahead with the export of particular types of equipment because the previous Conservative Government had granted a licence; but if he believes the material supplied by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and is now satisfied that the equipment was used in breach of the licence conditions, surely he could revoke the licence. That was the point he avoided when responding to the questions asked by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard).

Mr. Fatchett

I am surprised that there is one apologist for the Indonesian regime in the House, but if I had had to predict who it would be, I might well have pointed my finger at the hon. Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls). His defence of the Indonesian regime, despite its lack of democracy or respect for human rights, even brought embarrassment to his own Front Benchers.

Mr. Roger Berry (Kingswood)

Does my hon. Friend agree that Conservative support for the military regime in Indonesia is a disgrace to the House, not least given the events in East Timor in recent decades and the current conflict within Indonesia itself? Does he further agree that we should condemn the previous Conservative Government for their policy of granting, willy-nilly, export licences for arms that are now being used against the Indonesian people? How is that policy to change under the present Government?

Mr. Fatchett

My hon. Friend is right to express his surprise at the support for the regime in Indonesia and the reluctance among Conservative Members to back the programme of political reform that is so desperately needed in that country. He is also right to make, yet again, the crucial differentiation between the records of the two Governments. The arms sales criteria that we introduced last July are tougher and have played out tougher in practice. My hon. Friend knows that, and I am grateful for his support. He will know that the hoo-hah about one issue that we have heard in recent weeks contrasts sharply with the Conservatives' support for arming Indonesia, despite its past record; that contrast will be very obvious to hon. Members and to the general public.

Mr. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale)

The Minister referred to the need for political and economic reform in Indonesia. Does he agree that such reform must include self-determination for the people of East Timor? Will he undertake to continue to press for the implementation of United Nations resolutions in respect of East Timor?

Mr. Fatchett

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have taken an initiative during our EU presidency on the issue of East Timor. That is why we sent EU troika ambassadors on a visit to East Timor and why we have continued to take an interest in East Timor. We share the broad aspirations that the hon. Gentleman set out in his question.

Mrs. Alice Mahon (Halifax)

My hon. Friend will be aware that some ethnic minorities in Indonesia are being singled out by the mob for special treatment. What help can the outside community give to people such as the ethnic Chinese, who are receiving no protection whatever from the police or security forces in that country?

Mr. Fatchett

My hon. Friend talks about one of the more alarming developments taking place in Indonesia. I think that all of us will express deep sympathy for the Chinese ethnic minority, which has made such an important contribution to development in Indonesia. It is important that, in whatever way possible, we offer protection to all those people, because they have an absolute right to live in Indonesia and an absolute right to have the contribution that they have made for years recognised and respected. We shall urge restraint and urge the Indonesian Government to give the fullest possible defence to those people.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood)

The House will have noted with approval that the Minister gave priority in his statement to ensuring the safety of British citizens in a situation that must have been dire for them and their families—witnessing the destruction, in many instances, of their livelihood and the way of life that they had established as expatriates in Indonesia. Is the Minister satisfied that the chartered jumbo jet and the scheduled services with airlines other than British Airways will be sufficient to transport out of Indonesia all British people who wish to accept his Department's wise advice to leave?

Is the Minister aware that, in situations of this kind that can deteriorate even more, the necessary form of military back-up should always be present, and in that connection, can he confirm to the House that his Department advised the strategic defence review that the Royal Air Force should have a heavy-lift capability?

Mr. Fatchett

I am very grateful for the first part of the hon. Gentleman's comments. Obviously, it is our primary responsibility to look after the security and well-being of British citizens, and we shall do our utmost to discharge that responsibility. I am confident that we can discharge that responsibility. I believe that the steps so far taken by the ambassador and his staff have worked very well toward that objective. I am confident that the new steps that we have announced and the advice that we shall give will ensure that every British citizen who wishes to leave Indonesia will have the opportunity to do so.

Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)

Is the Minister aware that those of us who were lucky enough to go to Indonesia 30-odd years ago are really dismayed by what has happened in the past 15 years, and by the way in which events have turned out? However, does he recognise that it may now be a Javanese problem rather than an Indonesian problem? What advice is being given to British citizens in Sumatra, Lombok, Flores, Sulawesi and Kalimantan, where circumstances may be entirely different, away from the Jakarta mob?

Mr. Fatchett

Our advice to all British citizens, in whatever part of Indonesia and on whatever island, is to leave. We still feel that that is the most appropriate advice, whether in Jakarta or one of the other islands; we are not differentiating between them. I believe that it would be risky for us to try to differentiate. The important thing is to get British citizens out if they so wish, and we wish them to come at this stage, for their safety.

Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough)

I am sure that the Minister appreciates that many people in this country are worried about the well-being and whereabouts of relations and friends in Indonesia. Is an information line available at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, which the public may contact to get such information?

Mr. Fatchett

There is, and we shall ensure that that information line is made available for the public, and for the use of Members if they wish to take up individual cases.

Mrs. Anne Campbell (Cambridge)

Will my hon. Friend assure the House that he will continue to insist on the importance of human rights and political democracy to Indonesian Ministers when he meets them, and is not that in sharp contrast to the policy of the previous Government, who did not think it necessary to mention those things?

Mr. Fatchett

My hon. Friend is right, and I believe that the tone of the questions this afternoon shows that to be very much the case. We have constantly talked about the need for political reform, accountability, transparency and a respect for human rights, and we shall continue to do so. I do not think that we shall hear from the Labour Benches any support for Suharto, the regime in Indonesia and the mistakes that have been made over the years. I believe that that contrast will be widely understood and respected.

Mr. Ian Bruce (South Dorset)

Perhaps the Minister will think again about the advice that he gave his hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell). There are 13,000 islands in Indonesia, so to suggest that everyone is at the same risk is surely incorrect. Will he also comment on the G8 suggestion that the Indonesian regime should use non-lethal force? Is the Minister saying that water cannon should be used to control the rioters? Clearly, the vast majority of those who died did so because rioters set fire to shops and suchlike.

Mr. Fatchett

I repeat the point that I made to my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell): we advise all British citizens to get out of Indonesia, wherever they are. We see that as the best advice to offer.

The hon. Gentleman referred to water cannon, which many people would see as lethal equipment. If the Government were faced with a licence application for similar equipment to be exported to Indonesia, I do not expect that we, unlike the previous regime, would agree to it.

Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston)

Will the Minister confirm that the Labour Government refused to permit the export of machine guns and tear gas to Indonesia?

Mr. Fatchett

The answer is yes. That is part of the policy that we have adopted over the past 12 months.

Mr. Brian White (Milton Keynes, North-East)

Does my hon. Friend recognise that many non-governmental organisations have highlighted the situation in the rural areas of Indonesia? We have all seen what has happened in Jakarta this week, but many people in rural areas are starving as a direct result of Indonesian Government policy. Will my hon. Friend make representations that go beyond what is happening in Jakarta and which touch on abuse of human rights in the rural areas?

Mr. Fatchett

My hon. Friend makes an important point. When I was in Jakarta a few weeks ago, one of my concerns—it was also expressed to me by others—was the fact that Indonesia may be unable, because of changes in its infrastructure, to deliver enough food to people in the outlying islands. There may be a state of near famine in many of those islands, and the international community must address that issue with some urgency.