HC Deb 17 May 1988 vol 133 cc787-90
3. Mr. Buckley

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the report of the interim advisory committee on teachers' pay and conditions; and if he will make a statement.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Kenneth Baker)

I have received written and oral representations from the teacher unions and the local authority associations.

Mr. Buckley

Does the Secretary of State accept that morale in the teaching profession is pretty low because of pay? Does he also accept that the interim advisory committee report recommends that teachers should have an equal salary increase across the board and also considers the £300 million allocated to be a restraint on the wage increase for the teaching profession, which is well below the average increase in earnings of 8 per cent. recently awarded to other workers, such as nurses and doctors, and others in industry? Will the Secretary of State comment on that?

Mr. Baker

Teachers will receive 4.25 per cent. from 1 April on top of the 8.2 per cent. last October. Teachers on the main scale will, on average, receive a further 4 per cent. in September as a result of increments. Increases for individual teachers during this year will range from 4.25 to 14.5 per cent., when allowance is made for the increased value and number of allowances.

Mr. Madel

As the administration and teaching of GCSE has a lot to do with teachers' conditions of service, will the advisory committee on pay and conditions publish some of its conclusions and opinions on how this first year of GCSE has worked out?

Mr. Baker

That goes rather beyond the remit of the interim advisory committee, but I pay tribute to the work of teachers across the country to make the introduction of GCSE so successful, which I am sure it is and will be.

Ms. Armstrong

Does the Secretary of State recognise that many teachers are looking to the Government for some response to the work that they have been putting in to improve GCSE and to cope with the many changes that he is suggesting? Is it not disgraceful that the Government are suggesting offering them just over 4 per cent., when other average earnings are increasing by more than 8 per cent., and when the Government gave in to pressure from the nurses to improve their pay and conditions? Why will the Secretary of State not respond to the teachers?

Mr. Baker

There was a major restructuring for the teachers last year, just as there is a major restructuring for the nurses this year. I do not know whether the hon. Lady heard my reply earlier, but I said that teachers would receive 4.25 per cent. in April and the great majority of teachers on the main scale will receive another 4 per cent. in September. If they qualify for incentive allowances, some teachers will get infinitely more than that.

Mr. Paice

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the extra increase in incentive payments in the latest award—well above the basic 4.5 per cent.—means that there is ample opportunity for the better teachers to improve themselves and be better rewarded?

Mr. Baker

I agree with my hon. Friend. That is one of the features of the IAC report and the structure of teachers' salaries introduced last year. There are now five different grades of allowances which permit good teachers, teachers with more responsibility and teachers in shortage subjects to be rewarded. That structure was given tremendous impetus by the IAC report.

Mr. Fatchett

As the Press Association tapes report that the Secretary of State is having to cancel meetings because of the pressures of the Education Reform Bill", we are delighted to see him here this afternoon. Will he note that the interim report paints a worrying picture of low morale among teachers, of key shortages of teachers of important subjects, and states that there is real doubt about the ability of teachers to deliver the national curriculum? What action will he take on the interim advisory committee's suggestion that none of those problems can be satisfactorily resolved if the £300 million ceiling is maintained?

Mr. Baker

To answer the hon. Gentleman's last point, although there was a cost envelope of £300 million, the cost of the report's full recommendations came to £332 million, and I have accepted the extra allowances. My hon. Friend the Minister of State has already emphasised the impetus that we are putting into increased teacher training. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we shall need more teachers, particularly in certain shortage subjects, to implement the national curriculum. We have several schemes in hand, and there was a good increase in recruitment last year. I hope that there will be an increase this year as well.

4. Mr. Flannery

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he next proposes to discuss the restoration of negotiating rights with the teachers' unions.

Mr. Kenneth Baker

I expect to discuss the Green Paper on future pay determination machinery with representatives of teacher unions over the next few months.

Mr. Flannery

Is it not a fact that the Minister has now got himself into such a mess about the Education Reform Bill and the education system that he does not know where he is and is having to cancel all his speeches in order to be here? Does he realise that free negotiation is fundamental to the democratic rights of any group of working people, not only teachers? For the right hon. Gentleman to take that right away from teachers and then start boasting of how much he is giving them is no way of doing what the International Labour Organisation has asked him to do, which is to restore teachers' negotiating rights. It is not enough for the right hon. Gentleman to say that teachers are getting this, that and the other. That is insufficient, and he should restore teachers' negotiating rights in a democratic manner, straight away.

Mr. Baker

The ILO committee on freedom of association will be meeting later this month to report to the committee of experts, but it has no formal standing in itself. If in due course, the ILO makes representations to the Government, we will carefully consider them. However, I have already met the six teaching unions during the course of the past few days. We have discussed only briefly the future machinery for the determination of teachers' pay and conditions, but I will meet all the unions again later this year. The Government have put forward certain proposals in the Green Paper, as the hon. Gentleman knows. There is still a wide difference of opinion between the unions about the machinery that they would like.

Mr. Anthony Coombs

Will my right hon. Friend reflect upon the appalling fact that, of the five teacher associations, the NAS/UWT has already decided that it will take industrial action, which is against the interests of the children in the classrooms? Does he agree that it is not just a coincidence that the fastest-growing teachers' association is constitutionally committed against any kind of industrial action?

Mr. Baker

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Professional Association of Teachers is totally committed against taking any kind of industrial action, and its membership is growing. I saw representatives of the NAS/UWT last Friday morning and made it clear to them that I was shocked and appalled that, of all the unions, it advocated a half-day teachers' strike. Such action will be highly damaging to the children affected—and only the children will suffer. It is a completely unnecessary and purely token strike. I hope very much that that union will think again.

Mr. Straw

Is the Secretary of State committed to the restoration of negotiating rights for teaching unions?

Mr. Baker

I clearly stated that we have put forward our proposals for a teachers' negotiating group, and I shall be discussing that with the teaching unions in the coming months. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman has not taken this opportunity to condemn utterly the proposed half-day strike by the NAS/UWT.