HC Deb 10 November 1983 vol 48 cc395-7
1. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he intends to seek to amend the Northern Ireland Act 1982 to enable the Assembly to play a more effective role in the government of the Province.

2. Mr. Dubs

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is proposing any new political initiatives for Northern Ireland.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. James Prior)

The essential requirement remains agreement between the elected representatives of both sides of the community, and I do not see that amendment of the Northern Ireland Act 1982 would produce that agreement.

Mr. McNair-Wilson

Does my right hon. Friend agree that unless he amends the Act it will not come into effect as was originally intended and that, in those terms, the Northern Ireland Assembly cannot advance? If that is his present position and the one that he intends to maintain, what measures does he intend to introduce in the House to improve government in Northern Ireland and to remove some of the difficulties that he saw during the passage of the legislation last year?

Mr. Prior

Government in Northern Ireland has improved because of the Assembly. I should like to see a greater improvement in Northern Ireland by an advance to devolved government. That is not possible unless both sides of the community are prepared to take part. I do not believe that government in Northern Ireland would work if we amended the Act to enable one side to have power without the agreement of the other. Until that exists, we must pursue phase 1 of the Assembly as it is and proceed with generally improving government in Northern Ireland, which I believe most people agree is better than it was.

Mr. Dubs

Does the Secretary of State agree that basing so many hopes on the Assembly is excessively optimistic and that the real problems facing Northern Ireland require a much more radical solution? Will he look sympathetically at the outcome of the discussions centring on the forum in Dublin as a possible basis for a different and more hopeful departure?

Mr. Prior

It would always be wrong to be too optimistic about any scheme in Northern Ireland. If other schemes and solutions come forward, they will be properly and fully considered. The Government do not lack the will to achieve peace in Northern Ireland. We shall carefully study the extent to which the forum that is operating in the South is likely to produce any solutions designed to help us to achieve a settlement.

Mr. Peter Robinson

Does the Secretary of State agree that the Government's main problem in creating a devolved Government in Northern Ireland has been the formation of the Executive? Is it not proper for the Government now to consider, as an interim step, more law-making powers for the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

The main stumbling block towards progress in Northern Ireland has been the lack of will by the Unionist parties to attract the Social Democratic and Labour party to become a member of, and to play its part in, the Assembly, and also by the SDLP to sit in the Assembly and participate. That is the real problem, and I do not believe that it would be solved by trying to move towards legislative control separated from executive control.

Mr. John David Taylor

The Secretary of State spoke of having both communities in the Assembly. Will he confirm that Catholics are participating already, and that he is talking not about Catholics and Protestants but about supporters of a united Ireland?

Mr. Prior

I am talking about the representatives of the minority communities who seek nationalism through constitutional means. I acknowledge that there are six Catholics already in the Assembly who belong to the Alliance party. I hope that Unionists will accept that that does not constitute widespread acceptance of the Assembly throughout the community.

Mr. Budgen

What can the Unionist parties do, consistent with their views, to attract the SDLP into the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

They could recognise that there must be a greater willingness by all the people of Northern. Ireland — regardless of whether they are Unionists or Nationalists, Protestant or Catholic—to accept that the problems of greater peace and security there will not be solved until they come together to work in government and support the forces of law and order. That is what it is all about.

Mr. Stephen Ross

Does the Secretary of State agree that any proposals emanating from the forum should be seriously considered? Some people fear the implications of the Prime Minister's statement on Tuesday. Have not leading politicians in the South in recent months at least recognised the Protestant position in the North, which gives some hope for the future?

Mr. Prior

I agree that there has been greater recognition in the South of the proper position of the Unionists, which is helpful. But that will have to go some way further if it is to reassure Unionists about their right to remain members of the United Kingdom. We shall keep an open mind on anything emanating from the forum.

Mr. Archer

Could the right hon. Gentleman display a little more enthusiasm for the forum? While I appreciate that the Government cannot commit themselves in advance of any reports, will the right hon. Gentleman at least undertake to urge upon his right hon. Friend the Leader of the House that when they emerge the House should be given an early opportunity to debate them? If it is true that the Government do not regard Northern Ireland simply as a security problem, would not that be a way to demonstrate it?

Mr. Prior

I congratulate the right hon. and learned Gentleman on his appointment and wish him every good fortune in it.

It is not a question of my being enthusiastic about the forum. The forum was set up in the South and, to my regret, is unrepresentative of the political parties in the North. When we know what is emanating from the forum, the House must decide whether it wishes to debate it. Obviously, the discussions will be important.

Several Hon. Members

rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. Before I call the next question, I appeal for shorter supplementary questions and answers so that we may deal with more questions today than was the case yesterday.

3. Mr. Farr

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what has been the total cost in public funds of running the Northern Ireland Assembly for the past 12 months.

Mr. Prior

Just under £2.5 million.

Mr. Farr

Is that not a gross waste of public money? When does my right hon. Friend propose to put in hand steps to wind up the proceedings of the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

The answer to my hon. Friend's first question is no, and the answer to his second is that I have no intention of doing so.