HC Deb 02 February 1983 vol 36 cc288-9
7. Mr. Strang

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what guidance he has given to regional councils on the provision of children's centres, nursery and playgroup facilities for pre-school children.

Mr. John MacKay

None, Sir.

Mr. Strang

Is the Minister aware of the damage being done to young children in Lothian as a result of the cuts that have already been made in nursery education? Does he support the provision of full-time pre-school education, and does he recognise that the children in greatest need suffer most from the cuts?

Mr. MacKay

Nursery education is a matter for my hon. Friend the Minister responsible for education, and the provision of local services is a matter for the local authority. However, the Government are keen to encourage the various types of pre-school attention that can be given to young children. We are particularly keen to help the Scottish Pre-school Playgroups Association, to which we have given £89,000 to enable it to carry out some of its headquarters work.

Mr. David Steel

The Minister's answer is surprising, as his Department has given no guidance on these matters to local authorities. Will he undertake to ask the Department to examine the regulations that each region in Scotland has published on the subject and to consider the wide variations in them? Will he ask the Department to note that in the Lothian region, for example, the regulations result in extremely high fees for day nurseries—sometimes more than £50 a week? Will he encourage the voluntary participation of parents through the playgroup scheme?

Mr. MacKay

We shall do everything possible to encourage voluntary participation through the playgroup scheme. Neither the present Government nor the previous one have felt it necessary to give the guidance for which the right hon. Gentleman has asked. It is up to each local authority to examine the needs of its area and decide how best to provide for pre-school playgroups.

Sir Hector Monro

Does my hon. Friend agree that since the publication 11 years ago of the White Paper that encouraged nursery education and pre-school playgroups, such provision has been exceptionally valuable to children? Will he think again about making a strong recommendation to education authorities to do all that they can, especially for pre-school playgroups?

Mr. MacKay

At the risk of repeating myself, I must say that the Government would like to and do encourage the pre-school playgroup movement. Adding to nursery education is a matter for my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, North (Mr. Fletcher), and it should be considered in the light of whether we want to reduce the school starting age. I sometimes think that that is what some of the advocates of that policy want.

Mr. O'Neill

Does the Minister agree that there is considerable value in pre-school education in all its forms and that the Government made a grave mistake by removing the statutory obligation on local authorities to make such a provision under the Education Act 1980? Does he accept that pre-school provision in Scotland is an accident of geography and that it is no fault of the children or their parents that they are unable to benefit from such a provision throughout the country? Does he agree that a great deal more needs to be done?

Mr. MacKay

At the moment, 80,000 children all over Scotland benefit from pre-school provision of various types. My view and that of the Government is that the preschool playgroup, involving parents and children as it does, is the best way to improve that provision.