§ 5. Mr. Gwynoro Jonesasked the Secretary of State for Wales how many Welsh Office officials have visited the countries of the European Economic Communty in connection with the negotiations for entry.
§ Mr. Peter ThomasWelsh Office officials will be visiting Brussels shortly for an exchange of information and views.
§ Mr. Gwynoro JonesIs it not rather late in the day to visit the European Economic Community in view of the statements made by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster that we shall be joining in the next year or so, or that he expects that that will be so? Will the Welsh Office Ministers convey to the Government the mounting concern in Wales regarding possible entry into the Common Market? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman initiate an investigation into the whole problem of Wales in relation to the Common Market, especially as regards regional development, agriculture and the impact of the cost of living on areas where income per head is amongst the lowest in Britain?
§ Mr. Peter ThomasI do not consider that it is late in the day, because negotiations for entry are being handled at official level by an inter-departmental committee. When the Committee was set up in April, 1970, it was arranged that Welsh Office officials could take part in the activities of the committee relating to Wales, and that has been done. On the other part of the hon. Gentleman's question, the Government believe that membership of the European Economic Community, on the right terms, would be to the long-term advantage of all parts of the United Kingdom, including Wales.
§ Sir A. MeyerHas not membership of the E.E.C. brought great benefits to peripheral areas of the existing Common Market, and especially the Italian deep south, which has greatly benefited from the extensive funds which are available from the European Investment Bank, and might not Wales benefit from something of the same sort?
§ Mr. Peter ThomasI agree with my hon. Friend. It is one of the basic concepts of the Treaty of Rome to reduce differences between the various regions of the Community, especially by helping the less favourable ones.
§ Mr. William EdwardsI welcome the visit by officials of the Welsh Office. Would not the Secretary of State accept that one of the difficulties of entry is that once we accept a set of rules, those rules cannot be changed within the Community? One of the great problems which Wales will face is that we shall be a peripheral area in Europe with the least advantageous industrial policies of the whole of the European Economic Community.
§ Mr. Peter ThomasI do not agree with that. Regional policies in this country and in Wales are certainly compatible with membership of the Community. As for Wales, there are distinct advantages that may be gained through membership of the Community.
§ 7. Mr. Gwynoro Jonesasked the Secretary of State for Wales what specific safeguards directly linked to hill farming in Wales have been made a precondition of Great Britain's entry into the European Economic Community.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThere are safeguards in the Treaty of Rome which specifically provide that aid may be given to areas of special difficulty. Whether we join the Community or not, it is impossible to guarantee the continuance of specific subsidies, but we have told the Community that we wish to discuss with them the provision of assistance to our hill farmers, and my right hon. Friends and I are well aware of the importance of the present support to the hills.
§ Mr. Gwynoro JonesIn view of the Government's acceptance of the common agricultural policy as one of the conditions of entry, is it not rather late in 1199 the day that it is only now and in the next few months that the Welsh Office will be consulted on the matter of joining the Community? Reverting to the Minister's reply, will he give a specific assurance that safeguards regarding hill farming will be a condition of entry and, if they are not obtained, that the Government will not throw away the benefits accruing to hill farmers in Wales who, after all, are the backbone of our rural communities?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattI certainly agree with the last sentence. I reiterate that there are no E.E.C. provisions which would specifically prohibit our hill livestock subsidies. The Treaty of Rome contains general rules against aids which distort competition, but Articles 42 and 92 provide for aid to areas of special difficulty.
§ Mr. HoosonIs it not important from the farmers' point of view that the Government should be specific about this matter and not hide behind generalities? Will the hill farming subsidies—not only the hill farming cow subsidy and the sheep subsidy, but also the hill farming grants—be valid within the Common Market; because without them, hill farming is not profitable?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThe hon. and learned Gentleman and I and others share anxiety about the future in this respect, but I refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to my original Answer in which I said that whether we joined the Community or not, it is impossible to guarantee the continuance of specific subsidies. I went on to say that we wished to discuss with the E.E.C. the question of the provision of assistance to our hill farmers. This is very much in the Government's mind.
§ Mr. William EdwardsIs not the aid to special areas within the Common Market, in so far as it affects agriculture, primarily in the form of rural development boards? How will the Government provide such aid in Mid-Wales?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattI am surprised that the hon. Gentleman even talks about rural development boards when we are discussing Welsh agriculture. I repeat that there are no E.E.C. provisions which would specifically prohibit our livestock subsidies.
§ 26. Mr. Elystan Morganasked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will seek to pay an official visit to the underdeveloped areas of the European Economic Community.
§ Mr. Peter ThomasNo. I see no necessity to do so.
§ Mr. Elystan MorganDoes the Secretary of State appreciate that the reply given earlier this afternoon by the Minister of State with regard to Articles 42 and 92 of the Treaty of Rome may be misleading, in that the exclusions to the general rules forbidding unfair competition apply only to areas of abject poverty, very different in their conditions from Wales, with all its grave problems? Will he regard this as an urgent matter and take it up with the Prime Minister and his other Cabinet colleagues?
§ Mr. Peter ThomasThe matter has been carefully looked at. The Government believe that the regional policies pursued in this country are compatible with membership of the European Economic Community. If we go into the Community, we shall join in the moulding of European regional policies; but whatever the form it might ultimately take, the scope for vigorous regional policies is undoubted.