HC Deb 17 July 1968 vol 768 cc1566-80

Amendments made: No. 119, in page 70, line 2, leave out from 'proviso' to 'Part II' in line 4 and insert: 'after the words "1948" there shall be inserted the words "or"'. No. 120, in page 70, line 8, leave out from 'and' to 'art II' in line 10 and insert: 'after the words "1948" there shall be inserted the words "or"'. No. 121, in page 70, line 12, leave out from '90(6)'to' Part II' in line 14 and insert: 'after the words "1948" there shall be inserted the words "or"'.—[Mr. Millan.]

9.30 p.m.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 122, in page 70, line 24, at end insert: 7.—(1) In section 87(1), for the words from to an approved school' to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words 'to such place in Scotland as the Secretary of State may direct for the purposes of undergoing residential training, and after his transfer to that place may be dealt with and shall be subject to the provisions of this Act and of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1963 as if the order sending him to the school in England or Northern Ireland were an order for committal for residential training made under section 58A of this Act made upon the same date, and as if the order were authority for his detention for a period not exceeding the period for which he might be detained under the approved school order or, as the case may be, the training school order made in respect of him'. (2) In section 87(2) to (4), any reference to an approved school in Scotland shall be construed as a reference to a place in respect of which the Secretary of State has made, or may make, a direction under subsection (1). (3) In section 87(3), the words from 'approved school as' to the end of the subsection shall be omitted, and there shall be substituted the words 'to such place in Scotland as the Secretary of State may direct for the purposes of undergoing residential training, and after his transfer to that place may be dealt with and shall be subject to the provisions of this Act and of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1963 as if the order were an order for committal for residential training made under section 58A of this Act made upon the same date'. I suggest that it will be convenient to take at the same time Amendment No. 173, in Schedule 8, in page 79, line 42, leave out '98' and insert: '86 Sections 88 to 98'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

So be it.

Mr. Millan

Section 87 of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937, sets out arrangements for children and young persons to be sent from England, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands to approved schools in Scotland. Although approved schools as such are to be abolished in Scotland there may still be occasions when the most suitable treatment for a child from another part of the United Kingdom can be provided in a residential establishment in Scotland. For example, children from Northern Ireland are sometimes sent to the Macdonald Wing of Rossie Farm School. It is desirable to make provision for such cases. Accordingly, Section 87 of the 1937 Act is amended to make this possible.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 123, in page 70, line 25, leave out' For section 101(2) there shall be substituted' and insert: 'After section 101(2) there shall be inserted'.

No. 124, in page 70, line 27, leave out '(2)' and insert '(2A)'.—[Mr. Millan.]

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 125, in page 70, line 29, at end insert: (1) In section 103(1), for the words 'whether charged with an offence or not' there shall be substituted the words 'charged with an offence'. (2) After subsection (1), there shall be added the following subsection— '(1A) The court in making any inquiry in pursuance of the last foregoing subsection shall have regard to the application of the provisions of section 30(1) of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 but an order or judgment of the court shall not be invalidated by any subsequent proof that the court was not informed that at the material time the person was subject to a supervision requirement or that his case had been referred to a children's hearing under Part V of that Act'. (3) After subsection (4), there shall be added the following subsection— '(5) In subsections (1) and (2) of this section, references to a child or young person charged with an offence shall be construed as references to a child within the meaning of section 30(1) of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'. I suggest that with this it will be convenient to take Amendment No. 174, in Schedule 8, in page 79, leave out lines 44 to 48.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Very well.

Mr. Millan

The Amendment in subsection (1) takes account of the fact that a child will no longer be brought before a court in care and protection cases, so that it is necessary to remove that reference. The subsection (1A), which we add to Section 103 provides that an order or judgment of a court shall not be invalidated by a subsequent discovery that a child is subject to a supervision requirement in broadly the same way as it provided in Section 103 at present that an order or judgment shall not be invalidated by a subsequent discovery that the age of a person has not been correctly stated to the court.

As the House will know, in the case of a child under a supervision requirement, he should appear before a children's hearing. If he does not, the Amendment provides that nevertheless the decision of the court is not invalidated.

The subsection (5) which we are adding to section 103 of the 1937 Act—again by subsection (3) of the Amendment—takes account of the fact that in the case of an accused person the relevant factor is whether or not he is a child within the meaning of Part III of the Bill. Where a victim or a witness is concerned, the relevant factor remains whether he is a child or young person, that is, whether he is under 17 years of age. The deletions from Section 103 at present provided for in Schedule 8 are accordingly unnecessary and the references to section 103 are omitted from the Schedule by leaving out lines 44 to 48 on page 79.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 126, in page 71, line 7 [Schedule 7].. leave out 'Part I' and insert 'section 1(4)'

I suggest that with this we take Amendment No. 127.

Mr. Speaker

If that is convenient to the House.

Mr. Millan

The purpose of these two Amendments is to express in more specific form the Amendment to Section 27 of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act, 1947, set out in paragraph 10 of Schedule 1 of the Bill. The existing reference to Part I of the Social Work Act is too general. It is possible under the Bill for different dates to be appointed for the coming into operation of individual Clauses and, therefore, there might not be any operative date for Part I as a whole.

It is therefore necessary to make this reference rather more precise. It is from the date of the coming into operation of Clause 1(4) of the Bill that a local health authority is no longer to perform any function which that Section transfers to a local authority, and the two Amendments make the appropriate change.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 127, in page 71, line 10, leave out 'section 1(4) that Act' and insert 'that section'.

No. 128, in line 14, at end insert: 11. In section 32(1), at the end there shall be inserted the words ', and in this subsection any reference to another local authority includes a reference to a local authority in Scotland'.

No. 129, in line 15, leave out paragraph 12.

No. 130, in line 27, leave our paragraph 14.

No. 131, in line 36, leave out paragraph 16 and insert: 16.—(1) In section 1(4), after the words 'Secretary of State', there shall be inserted the words 'and in this subsection any reference to another local authority includes a reference to a local authority in Scotland'. (2) In subsection (5), after the words 'probation order', there shall be inserted the words 'or supervision requirement', and after the words '1937', there shall be inserted the words 'or Part II of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968'.

No. 132, in line 40, at end insert: 17. In section 13(1), at the end, there shall be inserted the words' and arrangements may be made under this subsection for boarding out a child in Scotland, or for maintaining him in a residential establishment provided, or the provision of which is secured, or which is registered, under Part IV of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968'.—[Mr. Millan.]

Mr. Milian

I beg to move Amendment No. 133, in page 72, line 13, leave out 'in rules made by the Secretary of State' and insert 'by Act of Adjournal'.

As the Schedule stands, it provides for a probation order to be in the form pre-prescribed in rules made by the Secretary of State. It is in fact inappropriate that a form relating to criminal procedure should be prescribed by the Secretary of State. It ought to be done by an Act of Adjournal made by the High Court of Judiciary, and the Amendment corrects that error.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 134, in page 73, line 4, after 'authority', insert: 'for the words "other than a juvenile court" there shall be substituted the words "other than a court whose procedure is regulated by rules made under section 52(2) of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937"'. With this we can also take Amendment No. 177.

Mr. Speaker

If that is convenient to the House.

Mr. Millan

The purpose of these two Amendments is to except from the provisions of Section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act, 1949, in the same way as a juvenile court is excepted at present, a court whose procedure is to be regulated by rules made by the High Court under Section 52(2) of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937, as amended by Schedule 1 to the Bill, that is to say, a court dealing with summary proceedings against a child.

What we are doing is continuing the special safeguards, the special considerations, which apply in a juvenile court to the communication to the child and his parent or guardian of the content of any report made to a court about him. This is already recognised in the special procedure of the Juvenile Courts Procedure (Scotland) Rules, 1951, and we are providing for a continuation of these safeguards by these Amendments.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 135, in page 73, line 19, leave out paragraph (2) and insert: (2) For subsections (3) and (4), there shall be substituted the following subsections— '(3) Where any person is committed to a local authority or to a remand centre under any provision of this Act that authority or centre shall be specified in the warrant, and he shall be detained by the authority or in the centre for the period for which he is committed or until he is liberated in due course of law. (4) Where any person has been committed to a local authority under any provision of this Act, the court by which he was committed, if the person so committed is not less than fourteen years of age and it appears to the court that he is unruly or depraved, may revoke the commitment and commit the said person—

  1. (a) if the court has been notified that a remand centre is available for the reception from that court of persons of his class or description, to a remand centre; and
  2. (b) if the court has not been so notified, to a prison'.
This Amendment goes with the following two Amendments: No. 136, in page 73, line 23, leave out from 'person' to second 'the' in line 24 and insert: 'under sixteen years of age who has been committed to prison or to a remand centre under this section'. No. 137, in line 25, after 'prison' insert 'or a remand centre'.

These Amendments are consequential on the new provisions substituted by paragraph 26(1) of Schedule 7 for the existing provisions of Section 28(1) of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act, 1949, which relates to the detention of persons under 21 remanded or committed for trial by a court. In future, if the person is under 16 he is to be committed to the local authority, which must place him in a suitable place of safety, rather than committed to a remand home because under the Bill remand homes as such will disappear. If he is over 16, or under 16 but over 14 and certified by the court to be unruly or depraved, he is to be committed to a remand centre if one is available or to prison if one is not.

The Amendments which replace the existing Sections 28(3) and (4) of the 1949 Act provide (a) that the local authority or remand centre to which a person is committed is to be specified in the warrant and that he is to be detained for the period of committal or until liberated in the due course of law; and (b) that the court, in the case of a person committed to a local authority who is over 14 and appears to be unruly or deprived, may revoke its commitment and commit that person instead to a remand centre or, if one is not available, a prison.

The Amendments to lines 23 and 25 alter the wording of the new subsection (5) which is added to Section 28 of the 1949 Act by paragraph 26(3) of Schedule 7 to make it clear that the sheriff may revoke the commitment of a person under 16 committed to a remand centre as well as to prison under Section 28 and commit him instead to the local authority.

In other words, these provisions introduce various elements of flexibility which would be missing without the Amendments.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 136, page 73, line 23, leave out from 'person' to second 'the' in line 24 and insert: 'under sixteen years of age who has been committed to prison or to a remand centre under this section'.

No. 137, in line 25, after 'prison' insert 'or a remand centre'.—[Mr. Millan.]

Mr. Ross

I beg to move Amendment No. 138, in page 73, line 34, leave out 'definition—' and insert: 'definitions— local authority" has the same meaning as in the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968,'. The Amendments made in Schedule 7 of the Bill to the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act, 1949, refer in several places to local authorities. It is accordingly desirable to define "local authority", which is not defined in the 1949 Act.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 139, in page 74, line 7, at end insert: In section 8(1), after the words 'the Children Act 1948' there shall be inserted the words 'or section 81 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'.

Mr. Speaker

With this Amendment, we take also the following group of Amendments: No. 140, in page 74, line 8 after '30', insert '(1)'.

No. 141: in page 74, line 8, leave out from '(1),' to 'for' in line 10 and insert; ' after paragraph (a) there shall be inserted the following paragraph—(aa)'.

No. 142: in line 14, at end insert: (2) In subsection (2) after the words 'forty-three', there shall be inserted the words 'or the said section 80'. In section 16(2)(b), after sub-paragraph (v) there shall be inserted the following sub-paragraph— '(vi) a contribution order under section 80 of, or a decree or an order made under section 81 of, the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'.

No. 178: in Schedule 8, page 81, line 41, column 3, at end insert: ',so far as relating to the modification of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937'.

Mr. Millan

These Amendments, to the Maintenance Orders Act, 1950, and complementary to Amendments which we have made earlier today to Part IV of the Bill, are designed to ensure that the machinery exists for the making and enforcement of contribution orders, decrees for aliment and orders in respect of such decrees against fathers and mothers who are for the time being resid- ing in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, where a child is in the care or under the supervision of a local authority in Scotland.

In other words, it is not possible for a father or mother to absolve himself from his obligation by moving out of Scotland. We are now making the provisions of the Act bite in England and Wales and in Northern Ireland.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 140, in page 74, line 8, after '30' insert '(1)'.

No. 141: in page 74, line 8, leave out from '(1),' to 'for' in line 10 and insert— 'after paragraph (a) there shall be inserted the following paragraph—(aa)'.

No. 142: in line 14, at end insert: (2) In subsection (2) after the words 'forty-three', there shall be inserted the words 'or the said section 80'.

In section 16(2)(b), after sub-paragraph (v) there shall be inserted the following sub-paragraph— '(vi) a contribution order under section 80 of, or a decree or an order made under section 81 of, the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'.—[Mr. Millan.]

9.45 p.m.

Mr. Ross

I beg to move Amendment No. L43, in page 74, leave out lines 16 and 17 and insert: 'Any reference to the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937, however expressed, or to any provision of that Act shall be omitted.

Valuation and Rating (Scotland) Act 1956

32.—(1) In section 8(1) in paragraph (b), after the word "authority", there shall be inserted the words "or to a local authority".

(2) For paragraph (c), there shall be substituted the following paragraph:— (c) of any structure belonging to a local authority or voluntary organisation being a local authority or a voluntary organisation within the meaning of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968 and supplied in pursuance of arrangements made under the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968 for the use of any persons who are blind, deaf and dumb or who suffer from mental disorder of any description and other persons who are substantially and permanently handicapped by illness, injury or congenital deformity or such other disabilities as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State under that Act"'.

This Amendment relates to two separate Acts. The Children and Young Persons Act, 1956, is a Great Britain enactment which amended both the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, which is the principal English Act, and the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937, the principal Scottish Act. The amendments related to such matters as escapes from care of fit persons, escapes from approved schools, and escapes from remand homes, and the amended provisions of the 1937 Act are being superseded by the provisions of the Bill. The 1956 Act is repealed for Scotland, and this makes clear that the references in the Act to the 1937 Act are no longer applicable to England and Wales or Scotland.

The new paragraph amending Section 8(1) of the Valuation and Rating (Scotland) Act, 1956, is designed to maintain the status quo. Section 8 provides that for the purpose of ascertaining the gross annual value of any lands and heritages no account shall be taken of certain structures. Subsection (1)(b) refers to structures supplied for use in pursuance of arrangements under Section 27(1) of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act, 1947, while subsection (l)(c) refers to structures supplied for use in pursuance of arrangements made under Section 29 of the National Assistance Act, 1948.

The changes are necessary because certain responsibilities under Section 27(1) of the 1947 Act are transferred from local health authorities to social work authorities, while responsibilities corresponding to those under Section 29 of the 1948 Act, which is repealed for Scotland by the Bill, are placed on social work authorities by the Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 144, in page 74, line 31, after '1968', insert 'and for the words "that section" there shall be substituted the words "the said section 1 or, as the case may be, the said section 15"'.

No. 145, in line 2, leave out 'sections 5(3)' and insert 'or by virtue of sections 5,'.

No. 146, in line 2, leave out 'and 59' and insert '59 and 60'.

No. 147, in line 11, leave out 'section' and insert 'subsection'.

No. 148, in line 24, leave out from '6(b)' to 'the' in line 25 and insert: 'after the words "1937" there shall be inserted'.

No. 149, in page 75, line 30, leave out '15' and insert '16'.

No. 150, in line 37, leave out 'for' and insert 'in'.—[Mr. Ross.]

Mr. Speaker

We come now to Amendment No. 151, with which it is suggested we should take Amendments No. 152, No. 154 and No. 183.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 151, in page 76, line 17, to leave out '(e)'.

This Amendment, and No. 152, which were referred to earlier today, are necessary because under Clause 1(4) the functions of local authorities under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act, 1960, are transferred to the local authorities, other than the functions relating to the ascertainment of mental deficiency of young persons under school age. In essence, what the Amendments do is to place under Section 7(1) of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act, 1960 functions which are appropriate to the local health authority and to transfer to subsection (1A) those appropriate to the social work authority. You said, Mr. Speaker, that with Amendment 154, we could take Amendment No. 183, but Amendment No. 157 could also be taken, I suggest, in this group.

The purpose of the Amendments is to make clear the meaning of a child for the purposes of Part V of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act, 1960. We are dealing here with a court case where the accused young person is not represented and it is necessary to make provision that a medical report shall be made available to the parent if the accused young person is a child under the age of 16 rather than if he is a child or young person. The words "child" and "young person" have certain meanings under the Children and Young Persons Act 1937 where a child is taken up to the age of 17. We are now dealing with a child up to the age of 16 and the three Amendments make the appropriate adjustment.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 152, in page 76, line 19, leave out from '7(1)' to end of line 24 and insert: 'after the words "shall include", there shall be inserted the words "the ascertainment of mental deficiency in any person not of school age within the meaning of the Education (Scotland) Act, 1962". (1A) In relation to the aforesaid persons the purpose for which arrangements are authorised or required to be made by a local authority under the said section 27(1) as read with section 1(4) of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968 shall include the following, that is to say—"; and paragraph (e) shall be omitted ".

(2) In subsection (2) for "(1)" where secondly occurring there shall be substituted the word "(1A)"'.

No. 153, in page 76, line 26, at end insert 'or'.

No. 154, in page 76, line 39, at end insert: In section 57(3)(b), after the word 'child', there shall be inserted the words 'under sixteen years of age'.

No. 155, in page 76, line 40, after '59(1)' insert: 'for the word "home" there shall be substituted the words "residential establishment", and '.—[Mr. Millan.]

No. 156, in page 77, line 5, leave out first '(1)'.

No. 157, in page 77, leave out lines 6 to 9.

No. 158, in page 77, line 20, leave out '(2)'.

No. 159, in page 77, line 21, leave out 'definitions' and insert 'definition'.

No. 160, in page 77, leave out lines 24 and 25.

No. 161, in page 77, line 26, leave out from '111', to 'the' in line 27 and insert: 'after the definition of "hospital order" there shall be inserted'.—[Mr. Millan.]

Mr. Ross

I beg to move Amendment No. 162, in page 77, line 29, at end insert:

Health Visiting and Social Work (Training) Act 1962

54. In section 3(5), after '1948', insert 'or under any re-enactment of any of the provisions of the said Parts of the said Acts of 1947 and 1948 contained in Part II of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968.

The Amendment provides that the re-enactments of the 1947 and 1948 Acts contained in Part II of the Bill shall be added to the list of enactments in Section 3(5). The effect is to preserve the status quo.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment No. 163, in page 78, line 3, leave out from first 'of to end of line 4 and insert: 'an establishment or residential establishment within the meaning of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 and the certificated teachers employed therein in the provision of primary, secondary or further education'. The purpose is to maintain the protection which certificated teachers at present employed in approved schools enjoy in the same way as teachers employed by the education authority. The provision in the Bill was not quite right and the Amendment maintains the protection.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 164, page 78, line 14, at end insert: (b) in definition 42, for the words from 'not include' to the end of the definition there shall be substituted the words 'an establishment or residential establishment within the meaning of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'.

No. 165, in line 19, leave out paragraph 61 and insert: 61. In section 55, the words from 'section 88(5)' to 'Scottish Act' shall be omitted and after '1948' there shall be inserted the words 'or section 23 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968'.

No. 166, in line 22, at beginning insert:

  1. (1) In section 57(2), any reference to a juvenile court shall, in relation to Scotland, be construed as a reference to the sheriff sitting summarily in respect of an offence by a child.
  2. (2).—[Mr. Millan.]

Mr. Millan

I beg to move Amendment 167, in page 78, line 30, at end insert: 65. In section 29, for the words 'approved school' there shall be substituted the words 'detained in any place under an order made by virtue of section 57 or 58A of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937'. We are dealing here with a provision in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act, 1963, which provides for the remission of fines where a young offender is detained. The references are no longer appropriate and we are substituting for a reference to an approved school a reference to detention … in any place under an order made by virtue of section 57 or 58A of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937'. These provisions are provided for in Schedule 1.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Ross

I beg to move Amendment No. 168, in page 78, line 40, leave out sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) and insert: 66.—(1) In section 11(1), in paragraph (a), after the word 'authorised' there shall be inserted the words 'or, as the case may be, his or her residence in a residential establishment is required', after paragraph (a)(ii) there shall be inserted the following head— 'or (iii) by a supervision requirement made under section 44 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968,', and after the words 'the school', there shall be inserted the words 'or, as the case may be, the residential establishment', and in paragraph (b), for the words 'the said Act of 1937' there shall be substituted the words 'the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937' and after paragraph (b) there shall be inserted the following paragraph— '(bb) during which the child is liable to undergo residential training under committal by virtue of section 58A of the said Act of 1937 and is not released under that section;', and after paragraph (c) there shall be added the following paragraph— '(cc) during which the child is accommodated by virtue of rules made by the Secretary of State under section 45 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker

With this we can discuss Government Amendments Nos. 187 and 189.

Mr. Ross

Amendment No. 168 provides for the omission of paragraph 66(1) and (2) of the Schedule and substitutes a provision the effect of which is to add Section 11(1) of the Family Allowances Act, 1965, which lists circumstances in which a child has been treated as excluded from a family for the purposes of the Act. A series of new circumstances arise from the Bill. These are any periods during which a child is, first, required to reside in a residential establishment by a supervision requirement made under Clause 44; or, secondly, liable to undergo residential training on committal under Section 58A of the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937; or, thirdly, accommodated by virtue of rules made by the Secretary of State under Clause 45, which may provide for the temporary accommodation of children subject to supervision requirements.

The Amendments to Schedule 8 which we are also discussing omit references in Section 11(2) of the Family Allowances Act, 1965, to provisions which are repealed by this Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

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