POLYTECHNICS (Hansard, 5 April 1967)

§ The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Anthony Crosland)
With permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a statement about polytechnics.
I have now completed my review of the provisional list of polytechnics which was published in the White Paper "A Plan for Polytechnics and Other Colleges". This review was conducted in the light of the views expressed by regional advisory councils for further education, regional economic planning councils, local education authorities and other bodies.
I propose to confirm the provisional list of 28 polytechnics in England and Wales. I am also inviting the Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Local Education Authorities to submit a scheme for a polytechnic formed from the North Staffordshire and Staffordshire Colleges of Technology. I accept the need for an additional polytechnic in the North-Western Region, to be located in Northern Lancashire, but shall defer a decision on its exact location and scope until work is further advanced on the proposed new town in the area of Preston.
I have been unable to agree to proposals which I have received for additional polytechnics in a number of other parts of the country. I have had to weigh the arguments in support of particular applications against the general need to concentrate the future development of full-time higher education within the further education system in a limited number of major institutions and specialist centres. This is essential if we are to use the available resources to the best advantage, and I am satisfied that the 30 polytechnics I am proposing will meet 152 the foreseeable need while providing a reasonable geographical balance.
I have sent invitations to the selected authorities asking them now to submit detailed schemes. I am also giving them guidance on the points on which I will wish to be satisfied before actually designating a polytechnic, including guidance on the government and academic organisation which I regard as appropriate for the polytechnics as major institutions of higher education.

§ Sir E. Boyle
As the Secretary of State knows, we on this side have always recognised that it is right to concentrate costly resources in fewer centres and to designate a limited number of polytechnics as the main centres for the future development of full-time higher education outside the universities.
May I, however, put four questions to the right hon. Gentleman? First, can he give an undertaking to the House that he will feel his way cautiously over the rundown of higher education in colleges other than polytechnics? As the right hon. Gentleman knows, there is very strong feeling about this in a number of areas. Secondly, will the Secretary of State assure the House that in pursuing this matter he will attach great importance to the part-time student as well as to the full-time student? We on this side realise the importance of full-time and part-time students working side by side.
Thirdly, can the right hon. Gentleman say something especially about the North-East in view of the anxiety caused by what we still think of as the unhappy decision to turn down the proposal for a new technological university in the North-East?
Last but by no means least, will the right hon. Gentleman say a little more in amplification of his last sentence about the government of the polytechnics and their academic organisation? Does this mean, as we on this side much hope, that the right hon. Gentleman will encourage student and staff consultation? Can he also say something about the representation of teachers on the governing bodies of polytechnics? Would he agree about the importance of the whole of local authority organisation, town clerks no less than the education service, attributing a proper sense of importance to these major institutions?

§ Mr. Crosland
The right hon. Gentleman has asked a large number of questions which I will try to answer in the order in which he asked them. I am grateful for his opening remarks expressing general sympathy with the policy of concentration in this sector.
In reply to the first of the right hon. Gentleman's four questions, yes, we shall certainly feel our way cautiously over the question of higher education in centres other than polytechnics. We have made it clear that we do not want any precipitate rundown in that respect. Secondly, yes, we attach great importance to the part-time student. We have made this clear in the White Paper and in everything we have said on the subject.
Thirdly, as to the North-East, the right hon. Gentleman will know that we have confirmed polytechnics in Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough. I think that this gives the North-East a proper and reasonable representation.
Lastly, on the Government and academic organisation, we certainly want teachers to be represented on the governing body. We have made this very explicit in our notes of guidance, and indeed have suggested that normally five should probably be the minimum number. I would wholly endorse the right hon. Gentleman's last statement about the general importance attached to these matters.

§ Mr. Lubbock
Could the Secretary of State say anything about the position of Sir John Cass College which, as he knows, is causing very great anxiety to both staff and students? Can he say whether the Treasury would make available additional funds to the University Grants Committee if any other institutions are transferred across the university boundary?

§ Mr. Crosland
I think that, in general, it is very unlikely that we shall see any institutions crossing the boundary in the sense of becoming either new universities or substantial new parts of an existing university. Therefore, I do not think that that is a serious possibility for Sir John Cass. I know the history of the college very well. I cannot say anything more about Sir John Cass at the moment, because no doubt it may have a part to play in the plans which the local education 154 authority will submit. We have suggested that the L.E.A. might submit plans for five polytechnics. Perhaps Sir John Cass will have a part to play in those plans. I cannot go further than that until we have the plans from the L.E.A.

§ Mr. McNamara
Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement will cause great disappointment in Hull and Humberside generally? Can he say whether this is a final list and whether colleges will be able to apply for admission to polytechnic status as areas develop? What will happen in the rundown of classes? Can my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that there will be no cut-back in advanced classes or the prevention of provision of further advanced classes for students?

§ Mr. Crosland
I am well aware of the strong feelings felt on Humberside, which, I must add, includes Grimsby as well as Hull. I have made it clear to the Kingston-upon-Hull authority that I shall be prepared to review the question of establishing a polytechnic in the Humberside area in the event of major developments resulting in substantial changes in the present position. On my hon. Friend's latter point about the continued provision for advanced courses in colleges not designated as polytechnics, I hope that he will think that in the White Paper and other statements we have shown that we shall adopt a flexible and sensible attitude.

§ Mr. G. Campbell
As the Minister concerned with these matters in Scotland is here, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether any decisions are to be taken or changes made concerning Scotland, or whether a statement is to be made?

§ Mr. Crosland
That is a matter for the Secretary of State for Scotland, I am glad to say.

§ Miss Quennell
Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether in selecting the 30 polytechnics he has been able to adhere to the suggestion in the White Paper that an hour's travelling time would be reasonable for students? Secondly, can he say whether grants for additional travelling time in respect of movement to and from the 30 centres will be available? Thirdly, can he say anything about the Bournemouth area?

§ Mr. Crosland
Bournemouth is one of the areas where proposals were submitted, and I had to decide, reluctantly, weighing them against the general necessity for some concentration, that we could not accept them. On the question of travelling time and geographical coverage as a whole, if the hon. Lady were to plot the 30 centres on a map, I think that she would find that we have a very fair geographical coverage. There is no large conurbation which will not have a polytechnic. This is always naturally a matter of balance between the principle of concentration, on the one hand, and the need to avoid too much travelling, on the other. I believe that we have drawn a reasonable balance. [Interruption.] As to Humberside, to which I hear my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) referring again, we must not confuse Humberside as it is today with Humberside as it might possibly be in a few years' time under the enlightened efforts of a Labour Government.

Dr. Owen
Is my right hon. Friend aware that Plymouth will be extremely grateful to be included in this list, but will he give consideration to having far greater co-operation between Government Departments and polytechnics and particularly the need for maritime studies and the co-operation of the National Environment Research Council and other Service establishments in the vicinity?

§ Mr. Crosland
I will certainly bear that very much in mind. However, if my hon. Friend has any particular point on co-operation which is troubling him or which he thinks we should consider, I should be much obliged if he would let me know about it.

§ Sir E. Boyle
In view of the importance of this matter both in general and in terms of particular institutions to which hon. Members have referred, we shall seek an early opportunity to debate the whole subject of higher education.