HC Deb 15 May 1956 vol 552 cc1908-10

Considered in Committee under Standing Order No. 84 (Money Committees) — [Queen's Recommendation signified.]

[Sir CHARLES MACANDREW in the Chair]

Motion made, and Question proposed. That, for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to increase the rate of certain allowances under the Family Allowances Acts, 1945 and 1952, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament"—

  1. A. of any increase in the sums payable out of moneys so provided under section one of the Family Allowances Act, 1945, which is attributable to any provision of the said Act of the present Session—
    1. (a) increasing by two shillings the weekly rate of the allowance payable in respect of each child of a family other than the two eldest;
    2. (b) providing that a person shall be treated as a child for the purposes of the said Act of 1945 during any period before he or she attains the age of eighteen years whilst he or she is undergoing full-time instruction in a school or is an apprentice or during any period whilst he or she is under the age of sixteen years and is incapacitated by illness or disability of mind or body both for attendance at a school and for employment;
    3. (c) validating certain marriages for the purposes of family allowances;
    4. (d) making provision with respect to reciprocal arrangements with other countries in connection with family allowances;
    5. (e) authorising a person who has been committed by an order of any court under the Children and Young Persons Act. 1933, or the Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act, 1937, to the care of a local authority to be treated in certain circumstances as included in a family for the purposes of family allowances;
  2. B. of any increase attributable to any provision of the said Act of the present Session in the sums payable out of moneys so provided under section twenty of the Family Allowances Act, 1945, subsection (1) of section sixty of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1946, or subsection (1) of section thirty-eight —of the National Insurance Act, 1946.—[Mr. Boyd-Carpenter.]

7.33 p. m.

Mr. H. A. Marquand (Middlesbrough, East)

I do not wish to delay the Committee, but I would like to make a remark or two about one passage in the Money Resolution now before us, where provision is made for increasing by two shillings the weekly rate of the allowance payable in respect of each child of a family other than the two eldest Being so very narrowly drawn, that provision confines us entirely within the ambit of the Bill; we could not, under this Resolution, move to increase the 2s. or to pay the allowance, as we would like to do, for the second child as well as the third.

I do not think the Minister will disagree with that interpretation. I only want to make it clear, because it is sometimes misunderstood outside this Committee. We maintain the attitude we expressed on Second Reading, but it will unfortunately not be possible for us to move appropriate Amendments in Committee.

Dr. Horace King (Southampton, Itchen)

Can the Minister give us any assurance that we shall, under the terms of this Money Resolution, have an opportunity of discussing in Committee some of the points we raised during the Second Reading debate.

The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Mr. John Boyd-Carpenter)

It is not, of course, for me to give any ruling as to what may or may not be in order at various stages of the Bill. So far as the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Middles- brough, East (Mr. Marquand) is concerned, my first impression leads me to agree with him, though I say that with due respect to the Chair, which must make the rulings on these subjects.

The hon. Gentleman the Member for Itchen (Dr. King) raises a more general question, and I am not myself clear which particular provisions he has in mind. This Money Resolution operates mainly in respect of that part of the Bill which deals with the charge on the Exchequer, in respect of which, of course, a Money Resolution is necessary, otherwise, under the Standing Orders, the Standing Committee would not be able to take those Clauses which impose a charge on the Exchequer. It is necessary, therefore, for those Clauses to be covered. As one can see from the framing of it, the Money Resolution is not designed, except in respect of certain limiting matters, to deal with what I might call the National Insurance side, though it has to deal with the charge in the first place, even where the Exchequer will be reimbursed from the Fund, and with the administrative expenses.

Certainly, so far as the generality of the matter is concerned, I should have thought—subject again to the fact that it is not for me—that we should not be involved in any difficulties.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported upon Thursday.