Clause 10.—(TERM OF OFFICE OF ELECTED MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.) (Hansard, 14 July 1950)

§ Mr. Fort (Clitheroe)
I beg to move, in page 7, line 6, to leave out subsection (3).
This subsection provides for vacancies to be left should elected members die or otherwise vacate their office before the end of their full term of office. Of the 47 members of the Council only 11 are elected, and of that 11, at least six must 1793 be on the Medical Disciplinary Committee. It seems to me to be important that this number of elected members should be maintained at full strength—there are not many of them—rather than let a vacancy by death or for other reasons remain for the best part of 12 months. Indeed, if several elected members of the Council died in the last 12 months of their term of office or retired for some reason during those 12 months, it might be exceedingly difficult for the Medical Disciplinary Committee to be properly and fully manned to discharge its duties.
Furthermore, by the terms of the consequential Amendment which we have put down, in page 7, line 26, to leave out from "resignation," to the end of line 28, it would be possible to put into operation the machinery for electing a new member to a vacancy before the end of the 12 months' period. I commend the Amendment to the Committee. It is designed to keep the relatively small numbers of elected members at full strength during the whole life of the Council.

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
While I appreciate the point which Members opposite have in mind in putting down this Amendment, and their natural desire to ensure that there should be at least six elected members available, I very much doubt whether it would be desirable to agree to this Amendment. In the first place the contingency which is visualised is highly unlikely. It assumes that 11 members are to be reduced to six within the last year of their period of office. I should have thought that almost inconceivable, but even if it were to happen, the committee would still be able to carry on its functions. I agree that it would mean that the number of elected members would be reduced, but there would be no automatic "seize-up" of the activities of the committee.
We must bear in mind the fact that the elections are expensive to carry out. It seemed to us reasonable that we should try to avoid unnecessary elections in the last year of the term of office. Although, as I say, I appreciate the point which hon. Members have in mind, I think that balancing it with the other factors and the extreme improbability of it ever occurring—

§ Dr. Morgan
Can the Parliamentary Secretary give us some idea of the cost?

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
Yes, I gather that the cost of an election to fill a casual vacancy in England, including Wales, would, on the basis of the latest experience be £1,245. The cost in Scotland would be a good deal less. I hope that suggests that this proposal may be regarded as unnecessary.

§ Mr. Pitman
Would the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the Irish doctors are happy about this, because they are in the peculiar position of having only one representative and in the circumstances envisaged by my hon. Friend the Member for Clitheroe (Mr. Fort) they might be without a representative for nearly a year? If they are satisfied, I shall be content with the Parliamentary Secretary's answer.

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
I understand that they are quite satisfied.

§ Mr. Iain MacLeod
Will the Parliamentary Secretary clear up one point? The question of cost is formidable if it be as real a point as that which the Parliamentary Secretary put forward. As I understand the matter, these members are not all elected together to serve for a particular period, so that to leave the vacancy would only postpone for a month, six months or, in an extreme case for between 11 and 12 months the expenditure of £1,245, which would in any case have to be expended. I may be on a wrong point but that is how it seems to me. if that be so, if that premise be sound, surely the Parliamentary Secretary will have to look at this again, because the method put forward is a great deal tidier and less cumbersome than the one at present in the Bill.

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
The expense involved is the expense of sending out ballot papers and so on, which is almost as great in sending out for one, as it is in sending out for many, when the general election takes place.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot
I see the point as to the expense but if a member disapproved of something being done. there is the very powerful sanction of resignation. No one wishes to resign and merely allow the body to whose action he objects, to carry on without his presence—no one except perhaps Mr. Molotov. It seems to me to be a valid point that a person who disapproves can resign and thereby bring about a by-election.

§ Dr. Morgan
And stand again.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot
He could stand again if necessary but he would produce a by-election and this procedure would avoid a by-election.

§ Dr. Morgan
In the last year.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot
Well, there are times when a by-election is no bad thing, and it is part of the sanction of an elected member that he can refuse to take further part in the proceedings of the Council and refer the matter again to the judgment of the electors. This, for what it is worth, would deprive the electors of that chance to decide in the last 12 months. One can imagine cases where it might be desirable that such an election should take place, and I hope that the Minister will give this a little further thought.

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
Hon. Members should realise that it is still possible for six members either to resign, or for vacancies to be caused by some other reason, before this particular difficulty arose; and also it is only within the last 12-month period that it can arise. I feel, taking everything into account, plus the cost involved, that the present position is reasonable.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot
I do not quite understand the point about "six."

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
Well, eleven down to six—five at any rate.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot
I was making the point about the protest of an individual which might well be a protest against the action of the other five elected members; and to refer it to the electorate is the constitutional way of assuring oneself as to who is expressing the view of the persons represented. I wish the Minister would look at this again. He may put in something to the effect that if the member quitting office desires it should not be filled until the end of his full time of office. That would obviate the difficulty to some extent. But the Minister should give further thought to this because the purpose of the Bill is really to strengthen the position of the elected Member, and this is one of the ways in which a single individual member can disagree with all the others. Sometimes in affairs it is a case of Athanasius contra mundum. Sometimes it is Athanasius who is right and the rest 1796 of the world wrong. It might well be that some obstinate and stubborn individual may be expressing a valuable point of view.

§ Dr. Morgan
I wish that the Parliamentary Secretary would consent to look at this again. The action of the Government is very peculiar. It is always being said that we want the professions to do their democratic work themselves, and now we are proposing to deprive them of an opportunity of so doing. The position is especially peculiar with regard to Ireland. Here we are asking that a man who has a legitimate grievance on one side ought to be able to give it prominence by resigning, and, as I said in an interjection, standing again to prove he is right. It is a little indiscreet of the Government having regard to the position in Ireland and I wish that the Minister would look at it again.

§ Mr. Blenkinsop
This is not a matter about which we wish to argue unduly. I am sure my right hon. Friend would be prepared to look at the point again, but I cannot give any sort of guarantee. I still think that, on balance, it is desirable that this position should be maintained.