Consultative Committees

HC Deb 03 April 1950 vol 473 cc849-51

39. Mr. H. Hynd

asked the Minister of Transport when he proposes to set up area users consultative committees throughout the country.

Mr. Barnes

The Central Transport Consultative Committee has been in existence since December, 1948. Committees for Scotland and Wales are operating, and I recently set up the Area Transport Users Consultative Committee for London. My view is that until the British Transport Commission has had a reasonable time in which to make progress in the consolidation of their undertakings, it is not desirable to set up the local committees provided for in the Act. I had also hoped that I could take into consideration the needs of area road passenger schemes in deciding the areas of these consultative committees, but progress in this direction has not been as rapid as I would have wished and, consequently, I propose to reconsider the establishment of these area transport users consultative committees.

Mr. Hynd

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if those bodies were set up the relationships between Transport Commission and the users of transport would be very much better than they are at present?

Mr. Barnes

As I have already said, I am proposing to consider that matter now.

Mr. P. Thorneycroft

Does not the right hon. Gentleman's answer show that this method of safeguarding consumers is now a demonstrable farce? He says he has set up the London area one, but is he not aware that he set it up only four weeks ago, that no recommendations have come from it, and that despite that the Transport Commission are now trying to screw another £3½ million out of the travelling public in London?

Mr. Driberg

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are many rural areas, very inadequately served by buses and trains, whose problems can only be solved in consultation with the people on the spot, the people who live there; and does his answer today mean that he is not going to set up consultative committees to cover such areas as Essex and East Anglia?

Mr. Barnes

No, certainly not. If my hon. Friend will read my reply he will see that it is the intention now to review this situation and to proceed.

Mr. Emrys Roberts

Is it a fact that the consultative committee for Wales has met on only one occasion since it was set up?

Mr. Barnes

I am not aware of that.

Mr. A. Edward Davies

The Minister based his explanation on the delay in the setting up of an area scheme. Is he taking any action to speed up the progress of the area scheme?

Mr. Barnes

It would certainly have been an advantage if one could have taken that problem into consideration. As I have pointed out, I cannot wait any longer.

Major Sir David Maxwell Fyfe

In view of the fact that the restrictions placed on Members of the House were related to the existence of these advisory committees, if the advisory committees are not to be appointed will the right hon. Gentleman consult with his colleague the Lord President to revise the rights of Members in asking questions about transport problems.

Mr. Barnes

The right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot properly have digested my reply. I have not indicated that it is not the intention. I have explained the reason why they have not been appointed, and have said that it is the intention to review this matter.

Mr. Sydney Silverman

On a point of Order. Is not the question of the right of Members to ask questions a matter to be determined by you, Mr. Speaker, and not by the Minister?

Mr. Speaker

It is a matter of the custom of the House, which I have to interpret.

Mr. P. Thorneycroft

Is it not a fact that not one recommendation affecting fares in London has come to the right hon. Gentleman from the whole of this machinery to date? Does not that mean, as my right hon. and learned Friend says, that the whole machinery for looking after the consumer has completely broken down in this connection?

Mr. Barnes

I entirely disagree with that view. As I explained during one of our Debates, the procedure is for these bodies to make their representations to the Minister. It does not follow that they will not, but I am not able to say whether they will or not; they have the opportunity.