§
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That—
(1) Where, on or after the first day of June, nineteen hundred and forty-eight, and before such date as may be specified by order of the Treasury, a licence under Section thirteen of the Finance Act, 1920, is issued in respect of either—
and the condition specified in paragraph (2) of this Resolution is fulfilled, the licence shall be issued on payment of half only of the duty chargeable, and the other half of the duty chargeable shall be remitted, but a licence so issued shall become void on that condition ceasing to be fulfilled.(2) The said condition is that either—
Provided that where—
the period of the validity of all those coupons shall be treated for the purposes of this Resolution (but not for any other purpose) as expiring on such date as may be
924
specified in the certificate, being the date by which so much only of that period remains as have to the whole thereof the same proportion as the number of units of fuel covered by the coupons which are delivered up unused bears to the number of units of fuel which were covered by all the said coupons.(3) On the surrender of a licence in respect of which there has been a remission of duty under this Resolution, the repayment of duty, if any, falling to be made under Section eighteen of the Finance Act, 1924, shall be computed by reference to the duty chargeable as diminished by the amount of the remission.
(4) In this Resolution, the expressions 'coupon' and 'standard ration coupon' have the same meanings as for the purposes of the orders of the Minister of Fuel and Power from time to time in force in respect of the control of motor fuel, and the expression 'light oils' has the meaning assigned to it by Subsection (3) of Section two of the Finance Act, 1928.
And it is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution should have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913.
§ 10.33 p.m.
§ The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Glenvil Hall)If the Committee desires it, I will explain briefly why this Resolution is on the Order Paper. Its terms are extremely narrow. It deals with the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Fuel and Power to the House the other day about the Government's proposal to make an allowance of petrol to the ordinary motorist as from 1st June. It is proposed that those who have motor fuel in this way should be allowed to take out motor licences for half the current rates laid down in the Act. This Resolution does no more than that. It does not deal at all with the actual petrol which is to be allowed or with the machinery to be set up to govern it. I would like to remind the Committee that when we reach the Finance Bill and the Clauses dealing with this therein, we shall have the opportunity of discussing the matter at much greater length than we can on this Resolution, which is narrowly drawn.
§ 10.35 P.m.
§ Captain Crookshank (Gainsborough)I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for his explanation. I thought it would be well that it should go on record exactly what is envisaged. As I under- 925 stand it, this is merely leading up to a Clause in the Finance Bill, and I take it that this has nothing to do with the other Bill with which the right hon. Gentleman is concerned. But there will be no opportunity for discussing this on Report stage under the new procedure, and I must give him warning that we must explore this proposition in greater detail later, because this seems incredibly unfair in parts. I do not want tonight to go into the merits of our differences, but the new proposals apparently envisage licences at half rate for certain petrol when, very likely, only exactly that amount of petrol is being drawn by somebody who has to pay the full licence. That is what appears at the first sight, and a great many other difficulties and anomalies have been brought to my notice.
I think that it would be well if we let the matter rest tonight so that we may hear representations from all parts of the country, because this is a matter of very great importance and public interest, and I hope that there will be an opportunity on the Finance Bill of discussing the matter generally. If necessary, we might draw upon one of our Supply days and have a discussion then. I do not know if that is the answer. I cannot, of course, say if that is the procedure we should adopt, but I do not want the right hon. Gentleman to think that if we let this matter go through tonight he need assume that everybody on this side—or, I suggest, everybody on that side—is in agreement with him, but we readily appreciate that there must be some sort of framework into which he can build something in the forthcoming Finance Bill.
I would like to point out that, as I read it, this thing does not make sense. In paragraph (2), sub-paragraph (ii), for instance, can the right hon. Gentleman correct something in the nature of a grammatical error, or must the Resolution be withdrawn and put upon the Order Paper again? If one reads it, one finds that certain things happen if one does so-and-so, and there is reference to
the period of the validity of all those coupons …".This is terrible verbiage. It goes on to say:shall be treated for the purposes of this Resolution (but not for any other purpose) as expiring on such date as may be specified in the certificate, being the date by which so much only of that period remains as have to 926 the whole thereof the same proportion as the number of units of fuel covered by the coupons which are delivered up unused bears to the number of units of fuel which were covered by all the said coupons.
§ The ChairmanIt is a printer's error. The word "bears" should be substituted fop the word "have" in the sentence:
the date by which so much only of that period remains as have to the whole," etc.
§ Captain CrookshankI must say that I never thought of that one. Is this some sort of parlour game? I take it, Major Milner, that it is within your discretion to say it is a printer's error, although it looks a long way from being a printer's error. "Has" is very near to "have," but I think that somebody's handwriting must be extremely bad or, alternatively, their typewriting wants looking into. This is a serious matter; this matter has occurred before in this House and mistakes in Financial Resolutions have, before now, led to very long discussions and withdrawal and re-submission, and I am not at all sure that we are justified in accepting from the Government a misprint to the extent of altering the word "have" into "bears." I do not for one moment call into question your statement on this matter or wish to argue about it, but altering "have" into "bears" is hardly an alteration, I should say, which would come within precedent. Perhaps it would be more consonant with the ordinary Rules of the House if this Resolution were taken back and put down on the Paper tomorrow on the understanding that there would be no further discussion on it but that any discussion which was to take place should take place now. It is not right that we should be told that the words "bears" and "have" are so similar that they are something which can be overlooked.
§ Mr. Glenvil HallActually what this part of the Resolution does, subject to this one misprint, is to permit someone, who now gets supplementary coupons approximating to what he would get if he were using standard coupons, to switch from one to the other, a thing which, I think, we are all agreed should be allowed. I am assured that the word should be "bears" and, as we all desire that the reduction of the cost of the licence should take place, we hope that the Committee will let us have the Resolution. There will be ample opportunity to discuss this matter on a future occasion, and it would 927 be better at this late hour to postpone the discussions till then. Having said that, I hope we may pass the Resolution without much further Debate.
§ Captain CrookshankI do not think the Committee should be asked to depart from their normal practice. It will only make a day's difference, and it will not delay the Finance Bill whether the right hon. Gentleman gets the incorrect Resolution tonight or the correct Resolution tomorrow. It is as well for the House sitting as a Committee of Ways and Means to register its disapproval when mistakes are made. We have had these occurrences before, and if the right hon. Gentleman were to tell me that it makes all the difference in the world whether he gets the Resolution tonight or tomorrow night from the point of view of the public interest, I would concede the matter at once, but as it does not, we should carry out our formula. If the Resolutions on the Paper are faulty and do not make sense and if two words such as "bears" and "have" are dissimilar though in this context perhaps having a similar meaning, it would be consonant with the proper Rules and Regulations if the correct Resolution were put down formally for tomorrow night, with any discussion on the matter taking place tonight.
§ 10.44 p.m.
§ Mr. Charles Williams (Torquay)I have no desire to lengthen the discussion on this matter, but, as my right hon. and gallant Friend has pointed out, we are under a grave difficulty in the actual wording of this Resolution owing to the brutal methods of the Government, whereby we have been deprived of dealing properly with these matters on the Report stage. That being so, it is only sensible and honest—if I might direct to the Government such a word in quite common use—to withdraw the Motion and amend the Resolution properly for another occasion. We are not surprised at this misprint, but having arrived at that stage, the Government must realise that to proceed with such a Resolution, which we have no powers of checking, is not right, and it should be withdrawn now on the understanding that it will be formally taken on another occasion. I could talk for quite a while on this Resolution if I chose, Major Milner, especially if I were interrupted. But I have no wish to do that. I only 928 wish, in the interest of Parliamentary decency, that this should be withdrawn now, so that we may have the power, in the Committee stage, the only power which the Committee has, to see that it is properly corrected.
§ The ChairmanIn fairness to the Committee, I think I ought to point out that this is, of course, in effect, a Budget Resolution. The normal practice is that Budget Resolutions are moved without notice, and, indeed, need not be put on the Order Paper at all. Therefore, it is rather different from the ordinary Resolutions. In these circumstances, I suggest that the Committee may perhaps be willing to pass this Resolution as corrected.
§ Mr. C. WilliamsMay I suggest that if it is the case that this can be put forward in the way you suggest, Major Milner, that is all the more reason that it should be correct.
§ The ChairmanI must point out that in fact, as now corrected, the Resolution is accurate, and it is perfectly competent for the Government to put forward such a Resolution, which is indeed a Budget Resolution, without notice of any kind, or without its even appearing on the Order Paper and that, on this occasion, the Resolution is presumably printed and notice given for the convenience of the Committee.
§ 10.47 p.m.
§ Captain CrookshankWhat is a Budget Resolution? This matter was not raised in this House, or even mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman, until the day after the Budget was opened. Therefore, surely it cannot be a Budget Resolution, which, in the generally accepted sense of the term, is one of a number put immediately after the Chancellor of the Exchequer sits down. This was not done. This may well lead, not perhaps to the main Finance Bill of the year, but to Finance Bill (No. 2) of the year, dealing with this specific point; or indeed we may find it before us in some other form of legislation. I do not think that because of the fact that it appears on the Order Paper after the Budget has been opened, but during the discussion of the Budget, it is entitled to be treated differently from any other Resolution.
§ Mr. Glenvil HallMay I say that the Committee was well aware that this Resolution was going to be put down. The 929 mistake is quite a small one, and it is obvious, on the face of it, that it is a misprint. I can assure the Committee that it is a misprint. I am not the slightest bit apologetic about it, because I have been in this House long enough to know that the Party opposite has, on more than one occasion, produced a Resolution of this kind containing some small mistake; the Committee, knowing that it was a mistake, passed the Resolution. I can only assume that the Opposition tonight is trying to be captious. I am sorry that it is. It will see this Resolution on the Order Paper again later, when we come to the Report stage. If the Opposition then finds that the wording is incorrect, it seems to me that it will have an opportunity of calling the Chairman's attention to the wording being different from that of the Resolution passed in Committee.
§ Captain CrookshankIt will be different from the Resolution today if it is going to be correct. But I do not know why the right hon. Gentleman, should say that we are being captious. I thought that I was going out of my way not to be captious. I can be quite captious when I try. That is a fact which is recognised. But I was saying that I like the ancient forms and usages of this House to be observed, and that on this occasion it did not matter one particle, from the point of view of time; because this Resolution, and others which we have passed, are not being taken tomorrow, but on the Report stage, on Thursday. Therefore, there will be ample time for this Resolution in its correct form to be passed tomorrow. I suggest that if the right hon. Gentleman, likes to do that, we will not discuss it tomorrow. I could not he less captious than that. But we on this side of the Committee do not want to make mountains out of molehills. If it is the general view of the Committee that it should let this Resolution go, in spite of its incorrectness, in spite of the fact that there is no urgency over the matter, and in spite of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman cannot produce any cogent reason why it should go through tonight instead of tomorrow—if that is the general wish of the Committee, I defer to the wishes of others. Sometimes I think it is a great pity that our ancient customs are not preserved, but as you, Major Milner, are in the Chair, and you are the chief custodian of them, 930 I do not think the point a sufficiently serious one on which to contest the Ruling of the Chair.
§ 10.51 p.m.
§ Mr. C. WilliamsAs far as the right hon. Gentleman the Financial Secretary was concerned, I do not know whether he meant to mislead the Committee or not. I hope he did not, but I would point out to him that he used the analogy that these misprints had occurred before and that it is quite possible they might happen again. But where he misled the House was in this way; in the old days we could discuss this on Report stage, and I believe I am right in saying that we cannot now discuss a Budget Resolution on Report stage. He was intending to convey to the Opposition that they could discuss it on the Report stage when they are not enabled so to do by the Orders of the House. It is wrong for the right hon. Gentleman to take refuge in that sort of subterfuge at the present time. I have no wish to continue this Debate except to say that it is absolutely typical of the right hon. Gentleman in giving that kind of argument and typical of the gross inaccuracies of this Government in every possible way.
§
Resolved:
That—
(1) Where, on or after the first day of June, nineteen hundred and forty-eight, and before such date as may be specified by order of the Treasury, a licence under section thirteen of the Finance Act, 1920, is issued in respect of either—
and the condition specified in paragraph (2) of this Resolution is fulfilled, the licence shall be issued on payment of half only of the duty chargeable, and the other half of the duty chargeable shall be remitted, but a licence so issued shall become void on that condition ceasing to be fulfilled.(2) The said condition is that either—
Provided that where—
the period of the validity of all those coupons shall be treated for the purposes of this Resolution (but not for any other purpose) as expiring on such date as may be specified in the certificate, being the date by which so much only of that period remains as have to the whole thereof the same proportion as the number of units of fuel covered by the coupons which are delivered up unused bears to the number of units of fuel which were covered by all the said coupons.(3) On the surrender of a licence in respect of which there has been a remission of duty under this Resolution, the repayment of duty, if any, falling to be made under Section eighteen of the Finance Act, 1924, shall be computed by reference to the duty chargeable as diminished by the amount of the remission.
(4) In this Resolution, the expressions "coupon" and "standard ration coupon" have the same meanings as for the purposes of the orders of the Minister of Fuel and Power from time to time in force in respect of the control of motor fuel, and the expression "light oils" has the meaning assigned to it by Subsection (3) of Section two of the Finance Act, 1928.
And it is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution should have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913.
§ Resolutions to be reported Tomorrow; Committee to sit again Tomorrow.