HC Deb 05 June 1945 vol 411 cc676-8
42. Mr. Edmund Harvey

asked the Secretary of State for War to what extent he proposes to modify the non-fraternisation order in Germany at an early date; and whether measures are being taken to adopt equivalent standards governing the relationships of the troops with the civil population in the different zones of occupation.

Sir J. Griģģ

The question will be kept under review in consultation with the other members of the quadripartite Control Council.

Mr. Harvey

While that question is under review, would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that an order, which is justifiable during military operations and in a period of uncertainty afterwards, may be a very great danger as well as a great hardship on troops if it is continued?

Sir J. Griģģ

I will certainly bear it in mind, but I have not the slightest intention of taking unilateral action.

Mr. Rhys Davies

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is true that this non-fraternisation imposition is not carried out in the Russian zone of occupation, and, if that is so, why distinguish between them?

Sir J. Griģģ

I think the hon. Member speaks in some ignorance of what is going on in the Russian zone. Anyhow, my answer was that I think it is a matter for the Control Commission to bring action in the war zones into some sort of co-ordination.

Mr. Stokes

Has the Secretary of State for War observed the reports from reputable newspaper correspondents on the most unsatisfactory working disorder, and is he aware of the statement that there was a Russian-German football match during the week-end?

Sir J. Griģģ

Yes, Sir.

Sir G. Jeffreys

Is my right hon. Friend aware that during the Rhine occupation at the end of the last war the disregard of the fraternisation order and its relaxation had the most prejudicial effect on the authority of the Army in the Rhineland?

Sir J. Griģģ

My answer to that question is the same as to the other Questions, that being, on the eve, as one hopes, of an effective Control Commission in which four nations take their place, it is extremely desirable that these matters should be regulated by the four nations in agreement.

Mr. A. Bevan

Have His Majesty's Government made representations on this matter to the Control Commission and, if so, what is the nature of them?

Sir J. Griģģ

The Control Commission has not yet been set up. To the best of my hope and belief it will be set up this very day. After that, I have not the slightest doubt that this is one of the questions which will obtrude itself upon the Control Commission without any reminders from me.

Mr. Bevan

But is it the intention of His Majesty's Government to make any representations whatsoever on this matter, as we are represented on the Control Commission, and is it not a fact that discipline in our Army is breaking down as a consequence of this order?

Sir J. Griģģ

The answer to the second question is, certainly not.

Mr. Bevan

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

Sir J. Griģģ

The hon. Gentleman knows, of course.

Mr. Bevan

We know more than you do about it.

Sir J. Griģģ

The hon. Member's knowledge of the Army is very deep, prolonged and vast. The answer to the first part is, as I have already said, that this question is bound to obtrude itself on the attention of the Control Commission as soon as it is set up.