HC Deb 23 February 1943 vol 387 cc31-5
Mr. A. Bevan

May I ask the Leader of the House a question on Business? He will recollect that a week last Thursday, just before the Prime Minister made his statement on the war, a discussion took place between him and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood) as to a Debate on the war. It was then understood that further consideration would be given to the matter. When this question is being discussed through the usual channels, will the right hon. Gentleman take into account that there are some Members who wish to have an early opportunity of a Debate, so that he can make an announcement in his next statement of Business?

The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Eden)

I certainly did say that I would consider our future practice, but we had a full day on the last occasion in debating the conduct of the war, and I do not know that in the present state of Business I could possibly give any undertaking for an early date unless there were very strong demands from all parts of the House.

Mr. Bevan

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recollect that my right hon. Friend confined himself to two or three sentences on that occasion, not because of universal satisfaction with the Prime Minister's statement, but because the time available then was much too limited to discuss a matter of that sort, and that hon. Members in all parts of the House wanted to have an opportunity of examining the Prime Minister's statement so as to give greater consideration to it? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is now a demand for a Debate on the conduct of the war?

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Eden

I said that I would consider the practice—and the Prime Minister agreed—for future statements, but, as regards the Prime Minister's last statement, which met with general approval in the House, there was absolutely no demand for a further Debate, and I have received none from any quarter. In view of the legislative Business before us, I could give no undertaking for a Debate on that statement at an early date.

Mr. Shinwell

I am rather mystified at my right hon. Friend's statement. Was it not generally understood after my right hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield had made certain observations on the form of the last Debate and restrained himself on the subject matter of the Prime Minister's statement, that there was to be a future occasion for a general Debate? That is within my recollection.

Mr. Eden

My hon. Friend speaks within his recollection, and I speak within mine. My recollection of the position is quite clear. It is that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wake-field asked whether in future we could not consider a different practice. I certainly gave no undertaking that, after having discussed the war situation on the Prime Minister's statement for a whole day. I would soon make available another day. I certainly could not give such an undertaking, and I could not make such an arrangement at the present time; nor have I received any demand for it through the usual channels.

Major-General Sir Alfred Knox

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that such Debates are desired by only about half-a-dozen Members of this House and by the German Secret Service?

Mr. Stokes

Does my right hon. Friend not recollect that my right hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield stated in his short remarks on that occasion that it might become necessary to ask for a further discussion, and in view of the fact that events in Tunisia have turned out so differently from what the Prime Minister said, and particularly in view of the most unsatisfactory statement made to-day by the Secretary of State for War about the tanks—[Interruption]—well, soldiers are dying out there through incompetence in tank technical matters—does he not think it high time that we had a full and proper Debate?

Mr. Eden

I would only observe in reply that, of course, if the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition and all parties in the House desire a Debate, then the matter will be examined. I have had no such request, and I cannot help feeling that a public discussion at this time would be a very poor contribution to help the soldiers in Tunisia.

Mr. Greenwood

I do object to the existing procedure for Debates on the war situation, which is never satisfactory as they are conducted now, but if my recollection is right I did say, I think in the presence of what Members were not moving out at the moment after the Prime Minister had sat down, that I did not intend on that occasion to pursue the matter further, but did indicate a desire, which I thought was fairly widespread, for a fairly early resumption of the discussion.

Earl Winterton

May I ask my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House if he will correct a rather unfortunate terminological expression which he used just now, in view of the events last week, and refer to my right hon. Friend not as Leader of the Opposition but as Leader of the Labour Party?

Mr. Eden

I am sorry. I apologise for my inexactitude.

Mr. Shinwell

In view of what happened last week on the Labour Party Amendment, is my right hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield not now regarded as the Leader of the Opposition?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker rose——

Mr. Maxton

I can sympathise, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, with your desire to get away from, this subject, but really it is most important that we should know where we are. I am not associating myself with a demand for a day for this particular Business, but the right hon. Gentleman has told us that our programme is so congested that we cannot expect days for anything. I keep my eyes open, and I want to know what is the heavy business which the House has to face between now and Easter, which this year is at a later date than usual?

Mr. Bevan

On a point of Order. Has it not been apparent to the House that on very many occasions arrangements which are made through the usual channels are repugnant to quite a considerable number of the Members of the House, On this occasion, as my hon. Friends on this side of the House will recollect, we desisted from intervening in that Debate on the understanding that there was going to be a further Debate. So it is not a matter of half a dozen of us only. The whole of us were given to understand that there was going to be a Debate, and I want to tell the right hon. Gentleman that if he does not give it, he will be made to. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] There are other ways.

Mr. Eden

The hon. Member is perfectly entitled to express his opinion. All I wish to say at the present time is that the arrangements were made in response to a request, made somewhat earlier, that such statements should always be made on the Motion for the Adjournment, so that the House could debate them, and we accordingly so arranged the Business. If there is a desire that henceforward there should be a change in the method, that point will be considered. In reply to the hon. Member for Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton), I did not say that there could be no opportunity for days between now and Easter, but that I cannot see my way to an immediate opportunity for a Debate—in the immediate future.

Mr. W. Brown

Can the Leader of the House give us some hope that within the next couple of months or so we may have a Debate on the Report of the Rushcliffe Committee dealing with the nursing profession, in which many of us are interested?

Captain Peter Macdonald

Has my right hon. Friend ever heard of battles being won by Debates in this House of Commons?

Mr. Bevan

When are you resigning?