HC Deb 15 June 1939 vol 348 cc1503-6
48. Mr. Batey

asked the Minister of Health the number of persons who consstitute the appeals tribunal under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Pensions Acts; where the tribunal meets; and what opportunity the appellants have of putting their case personally before the tribunal?

Mr. Elliot

An appeal under the Contributory Pensions Acts is determined by one or more referees selected from a panel of 10in England and Wales and from a panel of three in Scotland. The referees normally meet in London or Edinburgh, as the case may be, but where in their opinion an oral hearing is necessary, regard is had to the convenience of the appellant in fixing the place of the hearing. The appellant is always invited to attend an oral hearing in person, and any reasonable expenses he may incur in so doing are refunded to him.

Mr. Buchanan

Regarding the Edinburgh meetings, could not the right hon. Gentleman arrange that a date might be fixed for Glasgow, considering the huge population there is in the vicinity of Glasgow?

Mr. Elliot

I will convey that suggestion to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland.

49. Mr. Batey

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a woman who reached the age of 65 years on 22nd November, 1938, has been refused an old age pension, although her husband is 68 years of age and in receipt of the pension and they have been married since 29th December, 1900; and why the payment of this pension was refused?

Mr. Elliot

I am aware of the case to which the hon. Member refers. The applicant's claim to a contributory old age pension was rejected because she was not shown to have been the legal, wife of the man on whose insurance her claim was based nor had she herself the necessary insurance qualifications. The rejection of her claim has been upheld by the referees, whose decision is by law made final and conclusive.

Mr. Batey

As this woman has been married to her present husband for 39 years, should it not be necessary, in order to take away this pension, to prove that the first husband was alive 39 years ago.

Mr. Elliot

These matters come to the court of referees, who examine these points. As the hon. Member knows, I have been in correspondence with them over this point. The death of the first husband has not been established.

Mr. Batey

This woman has been married to her present husband 39 years. Should not the Ministry have to prove that the first husband was not dead when the second marriage took place 39 years ago?

Mr. Elliot

The Ministry has to make sure that the marriage was legal, otherwise there is no authority to pay the pension.

Mr. Buchanan

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if this woman was not married to this second man she would be guilty of bigamy, and liable to be prosecuted? Is not the mere fact that no proceedings have been taken, despite the publicity given to the matter, sufficient evidence that her first husband was dead when the second marriage took place?

Mr. Elliot

The Ministry, naturally, take every possible step to assist the pensioner in such cases, but the fact is that I cannot go outside the Act of Parliament. The Statute lays down what my duties are. I have no more power than any other Member of this House to go beyond the terms of the Statute.

Mr. Batey

I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

50. Mr. Batey

asked the Minister of Health the number of appeals under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Pensions Acts during the last 10 years; the number of appeals that have been allowed; and the number refused?

Mr. Elliot

During the 10 years ended 31st December last, 104,353 appeals under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Acts, 1925 to 1936, were decided by the referees, 12,432 of which were allowed and 91,921 disallowed.

Mr. Batey

Twelve thousand allowed, and 91,000 disallowed. Does that no show that the appeals tribunal is simply a one-way street? What is the use of it?

51. Mr. Kirby

asked the Minister of Health how many persons in receipt of old age pensions and in receipt of pensions under the Old Age, Widows' and Orphans' Pensions (Contributory) Acts, are in receipt of additional financial assistance from the public assistance committee in the city of Liverpool; and what is the cost per annum to the ratepayers of the city?

Mr. Elliot

During the week ended 11th March last the number of old age pensioners under the Old Age Pensions Act, 1936, and the Widows, Orphans and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act, 1936, who were in receipt of outdoor relief in the city of Liverpool was 7,564. The estimated annual cost of outdoor relief to old age pensioners and their dependants falling to be met out of rates and the Block Grants is £119.393. Corresponding particulars in respect of widow pensioners are not available.

Mr. Kirby

I suppose that it is not the slightest good asking the right hon. Gentleman when the Government are going to increase the pension allowances of these poor people and keep them off the rates?