§ Mr. LANSBURYWill the Lord President of the Council kindly state what is the business for next week, and also whether the Meat Order, which is down for discussion to-night, may wait over till next week to he taken at a similar time, as it is a little inconvenient for us to discuss it to-night?
§ Mr. BALDWINThe business for next week will be:—
Monday and Tuesday: Until 7.30, Debate on Second Reading of the Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions (Amendment) Bill. In accordance with the understanding reached last Tuesday, the half-day available on Tuesday next will be devoted to the conclusion of the Committee stage of the London Passenger Transport Bill.
Thursday: Second Reading of the Housing (Financial Provisions) Bill, and the Committee stage of the necessary Financial Resolution.
Private Members' Motions are to be taken on Wednesday, and Private Members' Bills on Friday. On any day, should time permit, other Government business will be taken.
In regard to the right hon. Gentleman's observation on the Meat Order, that is exempted business, and in any case, owing to the condition of business at this time of the Session, it must be taken after Eleven o'Clock. It is not the intention of the Government, if hon. Members wish to debate it at any length, to attempt to pass it through this evening. We are perfectly willing to continue the discussion. If for any other reason there is any inconvenience of which I am not aware, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will consult through the usual channels, and, if we can, we will meet him with regard to time.
§ Mr. LANSBURYI am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. We will communicate with the Patronage Secretary. I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman a question in reference to the American Debt payments. The House has had no opportunity of discussing questions connected with that, and we have not asked for any time simply because we wanted the Government to have sufficient opportunity to carry out their negotiations; but now that the decision must be taken I wish to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman would re-arrange business next week so that either on Monday or Tuesday the House can discuss these payments. We think that the House of Commons ought at least to hear the Government proposals, what the Government intend actually to do on the 15th, and that we ought to be able to put forward our views on the subject. In that connection, I would like also to say that we consider that the Bill to be introduced on Thursday is a very important one indeed, and that it ought to have at least two days' discussion. We suggest that the business fixed for either Monday or Tuesday should be shifted to Thursday in order that later on we may have two days in which to discuss the Second Reading of that very important and indeed revolutionary Bill,
§ Mr. BALDWINI do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman has had time to look at the Bill yet or not, but it is a very short Bill. We are going to take the Committee stages of that Bill, and also of the Rents Bill on the Floor of the House, and we are very anxious to get it on the Floor of the House as soon as possible after we come back from the holidays. In regard to what the right hon. Gentleman has said about the debts, there, of course, I cannot give him an answer at this moment, because both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer are out of the country. The Prime Minister, it will be recollected, gave an answer in the House stating that in his view it was undesirable in the public interest at that moment to discuss this matter. I must consult with him, and with the Chancellor of the Exchequer before I can possibly give an answer to the right hon. Gentleman's question. I hope they may both come back soon and as soon as I have consulted with them, I hope to be in a position to give the right hon. Gentleman an answer.
§ Mr. LANSBURYWith your permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out again that this is a very important matter of public policy and involves very considerable financial considerations. We are asking that before the payments are made or before they are withheld—in either event—the House of Commons should have an opportunity el discussing the subject. This is not now a question of something which is under negotiation. You must, within the next day of two, settle whether you will pay or will not pay, and we think that the House of Commons ought to discuss the question before a decision is taken.
§ Mr. BALDWINI am not aware yet, if the discussions which have been taking place have all been completed, but, in any case, I regret that I cannot possibly give the right hon. Gentleman an answer until I have consulted the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
§ Mr. LANSBURYMay I repeat—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] I should have thought that the whole House would have wanted a discussion on this matter. I put it to the right hon. Gentleman that the 15th December is this day week, and I wish to know when will be the proper time to ask him to give a decision on this matter and allow time for a discussion. Otherwise, we must take some other means of trying to raise this question.
§ Mr. BALDWINIf the right hon. Gentleman will repeat his question on Monday, I hope then to be in a position to give him an answer.
§ Colonel GRETTONMay I ask a question about the business of to-day. I see on the Order Paper a Motion for the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule. May I ask whether it is intended to take the Doncaster Drainage Bill at a late hour or to continue the discussion on that Bill until a late hour? This is a matter of great importance and interest to a number of hon. Members. Speaking for those hon. Members and myself, I wish to point out that we have, of course, no control over the amount of time which may be occupied by the consideration of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. The proceedings on that Bill may last for some time, and we are 1799 anxious to know whether the Doncaster Drainage Bill is to be discussed up to a late hour.
§ Mr. BALDWINIf there is no interference with the course of business proposed on the Order Paper, the view of the Government is that the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill will probably not occupy a very long time. We hope to get the Second Reading of the Doncaster Drainage Bill, because it is going to be referred to a Joint Select Committee of both Houses of Parliament, and we think that the sooner it gets to that Committee the better.
§ Colonel GRETTONMay I press for an answer to the last part of my question Is it intended to carry the discussion upon the Doncaster Bill up to a late hour?
§ Mr. BALDWINIt is difficult to answer definitely a question like that at
§ four o'clock in the afternoon. We certainly hope to get the Second Reading of the Bill to-night, but I hope we shall get it without having to sit up until a very late hour.
§ Sir FRANCIS FREMANTLEArising out of the previous answer upon business, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he considers it necessary to have the discussion on the Rent Restrictions (Amendment) Bill in Committee, on the Floor of the House? The Measure is a mass of detail which will take up a great deal of time, and it would be a great deal better if it were taken in Committee upstairs.
§
Motion made, and Question put,
That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[Mr. Baldwin.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 267; Noes, 34.
1801| Division No. 21.] | AYES. | [4.0 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. | Gower, Sir Robert |
| Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) | Conant, R. J. E. | Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas |
| Albery, Irving James | Cooke, Douglas | Gretton. Colonel Rt. Hon. John |
| Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh) | Cooper, A. Duff | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro'. W.) |
| Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K. | Courthope, Colonel Sir George L. | Grimston, R. V. |
| Aske, Sir Robert William | Cranborne, Viscount | Gunston, Captain D. W. |
| Astbury, Lieut.-Com. Frederick Wolfe | Crooke, J. Smedley | Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. |
| Baillie, Sir Adrian W. M. | Crookshank, Col. C. de Windt (Bootle) | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro) | Hamilton, Sir R. W.(Orkney & Zetl'nd) |
| Balniel, Lord | Cross, R. H. | Hammersley, Samuel S. |
| Barton, Capt. Basil Kelsey | Curry, A. C. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry |
| Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell | Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Harbord, Arthur |
| Beaumont, Hon. R.E.B. (Portsm'th.C.) | Davison, Sir William Henry | Harris, Sir Percy |
| Benn, Sir Arthur Shirley | Denman, Hon. R. D. | Hartington, Marquess of |
| Bennett, Capt. Sir Ernest Nathaniel | Denville, Alfred | Hartland, George A. |
| Bernays, Robert | Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. | Harvey, George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n) |
| Blindell, James | Dickie, John P. | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) |
| Borodale, Viscount | Donner, P. W. | Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M. |
| Bossom, A. C. | Doran, Edward | Heligers, Captain F. F. A. |
| Boulton, W. W. | Duggan, Hubert John | Henderson, Sir Vivian L. (Chelmsf'd) |
| Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. | Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. |
| Brass, Captain Sir William | Eady, George H. | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller |
| Briant, Frank | Eden, Robert Anthony | Holdsworth, Herbert |
| Broadbent, Colonel John | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Hope, Capt. Hon. A. O. J. (Aston) |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Elliot, Major Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Hope, Sydney (Chester, Stalybridge) |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Ellis, Sir R. Geoffrey | Hore-Belisha, Leslie |
| Browne, Captain A. C. | Elliston, Captain George Sampson | Hornby, Frank |
| Buchan, John | Elmley, Viscount | Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. |
| Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. | Emmott, Charles E. G. C. | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) |
| Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie | Entwistle, Cyril Fullard | Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport) |
| Burnett, John George | Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) | Hurd, Sir Percy |
| Cadogan, Hon. Edward | Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blackpool) | Hurst, Sir Gerald B. |
| Calne, G. R. Hall- | Everard, W. Lindsay | Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) |
| Campbell, Edward Taswell (Bromley) | Fermoy, Lord | James, Wing-Corn. A. W. H. |
| Caporn, Arthur Cecll | Flelden, Edward Brocklehurst | Jamieson, Douglas |
| Carver, Major William H. | Fleming, Edward Lascelles | Ker, J. Campbell |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin) | Kimball, Lawrence |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Fox, Sir Gifford | Kirkpatrick, William M. |
| Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Fraser, Captain Ian | Knatchbull, Captain Hon. M. H. R, |
| Chapman, Sir Samuel (Edinburgh, S.) | Fremantle, Sir Francis | Knebworth, Viscount |
| Chorlton, Alan Ernest Leofric | Fuller, Captain A. G | Knight, Holford |
| Christie, James Archibald | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon Sir John | Knox, Sir Alfred |
| Clarke, Frank | Gledhill, Gilbert | Lambert, Rt. Hon, George |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Glossop, C. W. H. | Latham, Sir Herbert Paul |
| Clayton, Dr. George C. | Glyn, Major Ralph G. C. | Law, Sir Alfred |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Goodman, Colonel Albert W. | Leckie, J. A. |
| Lees-Jones, John | Nunn, William | Skelton, Archibald Noel |
| Leigh, Sir John | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) |
| Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A. | Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam) |
| Levy, Thomas | Palmer, Francis Noel | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Lewis, Oswald | Patrick, Colin M. | Somerset, Thomas |
| Lindsay, Noel Ker | Peake, Captain Osbert | Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor) |
| Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunliffe- | Pearson, William G. | Soper, Richard |
| Lloyd, Geoffrey | Peters, Dr. Sidney John | Southby, Commander Archibald R. J. |
| Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hn. G.(Wd. Gr'n) | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Spencer, Captain Richard A. |
| Lockwood, John C. (Hackney, C.) | Pickering, Ernest H. | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westmorland) |
| Loder, Captain J. de Vere | Pickford, Hon. Mary Ada | Storey, Samuel |
| Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander | Potter, John | Strauss, Edward A. |
| Lyons, Abraham Montagu | Procter, Major Henry Adam | Strickland, Captain W. F. |
| Mabane, William | Pybus, Percy John | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- |
| MacAndrew, Lieut.-Col. C. G. (Partick) | Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray F. |
| MacAndrew. Capt. J. O. (Ayr) | Ramsbotham, Herwald | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart |
| MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Ramsden, E. | Sutcliffe, Harold |
| Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Rankin, Robert | Tate, Mavis Constance |
| McEwen, Captain J. H. F. | Rathbone, Eleanor | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) |
| McKeag, William | Rea, Walter Russell | Todd, Capt. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.) |
| McKie, John Hamilton | Reid, Capt. A. Cunningham- | Todd, A. L. S. (Kingswinford) |
| Maclay, Hon. Joseph Paton | Reid, David D. (County Down) | Touche, Gordon Cosmo |
| McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) | Reid, William Allan (Derby) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. | Remer, John R. | Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) |
| Magnay, Thomas | Rentoul, Sir Gervais S. | Ward. Sarah Adelaide (Cannock) |
| Maitland, Adam | Robinson, John Roland | Warrender, Sir Victor A. G. |
| Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest | Rosbotham, S. T. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot | Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge) | Watt, Captain George Steven H. |
| Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M. | Runge, Norah Cecil | White, Henry Graham |
| Margesson, Capt. Henry David R. | Russell, Albert (Kirkcaldy) | Whiteside, Borras Noel H. |
| Marsden, Commander Arthur | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Martin, Thomas B. | Russell, Hamer Field (Sheffield, B'tslde) | Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.) |
| Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.) | Russell, Richard John (Eddisbury) | Wills, Wilfrid D. |
| Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John | Rutherford, Sir John Hugo | Wilson, Clyde T. (West Toxteth) |
| Mitchell, Harold P. (Br'tf'd & Chisw'k) | Salmon, Major Isidore | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Salt, Edward W. | Wise, Alfred R. |
| Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale | Samuel, Sir Arthur Michael (F'nham) | Womersley, Walter James |
| Morris, Owen Temple (Cardiff, E.) | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir H. Kingsley |
| Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart | Wood, Sir Murdoch McKenzie (Banff) |
| Moss, Captain H. J. | Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard | Worthington, Dr. John V. |
| Muirhead, Major A. J. | Savery, Samuel Servington | Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'oaks) |
| Munro, Patrick | Scone, Lord | |
| Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. | Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| North, Captain Edward T. | Sinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A. (C'thness) | Sir Frederick Thomson and Sir |
| George Penny. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) | Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) |
| Banfield, John William | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Milner, Major James |
| Batey, Joseph | Grundy, Thomas W. | Parkinson, John Allen |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) | Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) | Price, Gabriel |
| Cape, Thomas | Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Thorne, William James |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Hicks, Ernest George | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Daggar, George | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Wellhead, Richard C. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Kirkwood, David | Williams, Edward John (Ogmore) |
| Edwards, Charles | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly) |
| George, Megan A. Lloyd (Anglesea) | Lawson, John James | Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Logan, David Gilbert | |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Arthur | Lunn, William | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Mr. C. Macdonald and Mr. Groves. |