§
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That a sum, not exceeding £397,313, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1932, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Department of Agriculture for Scotland, including Grants for Land Improvement, Agricultural Education and Research, Loans to Co-operative Societies, a Grant under the Agricultural Credits (Scotland) Act, 1929, a Grant in respect of the Hebridean Drifter Service, and certain Grants-in-Aid.
§ Mr. SKELTONI hope that the hon. Lady who has just spoken did not curtail her most interesting speech earlier than she meant to do, in order to let me address myself to the new Vote, because we listen to her always with interest, and I should be sorry to think that she had cut short her remarks. The question to which I want my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to devote his attention is the question of the probable situation during the coming crop season of the small fruit-growers of Scotland. I start, of course, with the view that it is impossible for the Government to handle the subject by way of tariffs or restrictions of any sort, and that the question must be discussed as to what can be done. I should like to know what the Secretary of State is proposing to do in what is a very serious and very urgent crisis. It is serious because it is quite clear that this is going to be the second season in which the whole Scottish industry will be completely unremunerative, and it is urgent because the time of the cropping season is so nearly upon us.
The situation is this: Although I refer exclusively to one form of small fruit cul- 741 tivation, it is not the only one. I take, for instance, the raspberry crop. There is a crop of many thousands of tons, a very valuable crop, to the cultivation af which large numbers of men who have been settled on the land have been encouraged to devote themselves, and to which for a number of years they have devoted themselves with great success. It is a highly intensive crop. Up to last year a profit of £50 or £60 an acre was made. Therefore it will be seen that the cultivation of quite a small parcel of ground was sufficient support for a family. In my own constituency, in the Carse of Gowrie, and in the neighbouring constituencies of Angus and Fife, it is a local industry of very great importance. It is an industry of far more than rural importance, for one of its most remarkable features is that it is one of the bridge s between country and town.
The cultivation of raspberries alone means that some 20,000 town workers get what is really a country holiday, for which, unlike most of us, they get adequate pay. I know from my own experience that very valuable results have come to mill workers in Dundee, who go out to the neighbouring districts for a fortnight or three weeks and engage in raspberry picking. I have often seen them, and I know how extraordinarily valuable the crop is, what a valuable industry it is from the point of view of the town worker as well as the country dweller. What has happened in the last two years is that pulp has been imported from a country which it is always better not to name in this House, and of which I shall certainly not mention even the initial letter—let us call it X—pulp is being dumped at prices which are less than half the minimum at which the cultivation of raspberries can be made to pay in this country. The price of this pulp last year dropped to £11 or £12 a ton, whereas the bare cultivation costs in Scotland are only covered by a price of about £30 a ton.
10.0 p.m.
There is every reason to suppose that this year there will he a recurrence of exactly the same situation, and, indeed, that the situation will be worse, because there is a certain amount of pulp left over from last year's crop, both home and foreign. The price is already, three or four weeks before the crop begins, down to a figure which spells disaster. 742 That is a situation of the gravest sort. I hope and believe that the Government and the Secretary of State for Scotland have at least been considering what steps can be taken inside the limitations of the general fiscal policy of the Government. It is not easy to suggest what these steps can be, but it would appear that there could be some assistance given with regard to transport, with regard to the organisation of sales and by way of pressure upon those who buy the crops to buy if possible British fruit even at a higher price. I say that such pressure might be brought to induce purchase at a higher price, because so far as I know the very low figure of last year's price was not fully reflected in the price of the finished article, the raspberry jam. I think the Secretary of State really might see whether he can bring some pressure to bear upon those who buy the crops and persuade them to give first preference to the Scottish crop. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to relieve the growing anxiety of the fruit growers of Scotland as to whether this year's crop is to prove as disastrous as that of 1930.
§ Mr. MCKINLAYWould the hon. Gentleman tell us the number of growers who are also dealers, and what is their primary function, growing or dealing, and how far they determine the price paid to the rest of the growers?
§ Mr. SKELTONI cannot give any general answer to that, but I know that in the district in my own constituency they are almost exclusively growers, and the question of dealers does not come into it at all. It is not a question of the dealer at all; it is a question of a foreign pulp coming into this country at £11 or £12 a ton, whereas the British crop must bring in £30 a ton to pay its way. In these figures the operations, good or bad, of dealers, in my judgment have no part at all. I hope that the Secretary of State will not attempt to ride off by throwing mud at the dealer, because this is not a question into which the dealer comes.
§ Mr. McKINLAYI ask the hon. Member because he comes from a constituency which is engaged in the growing of this fruit.
§ Mr. SKELTONI have no doubt that the hon. Member's question had some relevance, and that he would not have dragged in the dealer unless he thought that the dealer had something to do with the price problem. We are all familiar with the question of middlemen and dealers in regard to a lot of products, but I merely say that the crisis of the moment has not been caused by dealing operations, but by dumping. Whatever be the cause, there it is, and the position is serious. There is another element of seriousness. The raspberry crop is very largely grown by men and women who have been settled under the Land Settlement Act of 1919. To a very large extent they are ex-service men. Most of them came into their settlements at a time of high prices, about 1920, and most of them immediately had to encounter the slump of 1921. Most of them, if not all, successfully encountered the difficulties of that slump, but they have had only a very few years of such conditions as make success possible, and now they are faced with a new problem: a problem which they cannot handle themselves, which is not their fault, and in regard to which I think—particularly in the case of these men whom the State has settled on the land—the State has some duty to attempt to assist.
One other word. The importance of intensive cultivation of the land for this crop is of a degree almost peculiar to Scotland and cannot be over-estimated. Intensive cultivation of the land is a thing which we are all aiming at. It is what the party opposite, while in Opposition, were constantly urging. The importance of land settlement has been urged from all sides of the House. Although, personally, it has more often been my claim to urge a continuous land settlement policy, it is quite clear that the policy of the moment is one of looking after the people who have already-been settled on the land for this particular form of cultivation. Further, it is a problem which will not brook delay, for this reason, that it is in many ways such an expensive crop to cultivate; a crop which in the absence of proper cultivation goes back very quickly. The condition of a raspberry cane which has not been properly cultivated for 12 months is hopeless, and no raspberry-growing would survive two years' neglect unless it was possible to expend a large 744 sum of money on labour. Therefore, bad years create in this case a problem even more urgent that the bad years of ordinary farming. I hesitate to consider what will be the fate of this really important rural industry in Scotland if another season is allowed to go by without any assistance being given and without a facing of the problem.
I spoke a moment ago on the subject of the smallholder, the man settled under the 1919 Act. It may be that I do not myself greatly favour chat form of assistance. It may be that, if we only had to deal with them, then something in the way of a remission of rent might be possible. I should like the right hon. Gentleman to say what is the position in the matter of rents: whether there have been urgent demands for some relaxation of rents during this bad period, and whether he proposes to do something in that line. The cultivation of raspberries is not confined to men settled on the land since 1919. There are large numbers of smallholders who were there before, and there are the larger-sized holdings; and no remission of rents is possible in their case, nor would it solve the problem for them. It is extremely difficult for them. It is very easy for us to say that the Scottish raspberry is very much better than the foreign raspberry and that no foreign raspberry shall come in; but the Government cannot do that. I do not wish to criticise them on that point now.
I merely say that the raspberry is an intensively-grown article, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be able to tell me he has in fact studied the question and has some hopes of bringing some assistance to the growers, both great and small, of the forthcoming crop. I hope he will not tell us that we are exaggerating the situation of last year, because there are a large number of persons who went out from the towns to gather the crop. The truth of the matter is that, though large numbers may have gone out, most of them stayed a very short time, and most of them were not asked to deal with the usual quantity, with the result that hundreds of tons of fruit remained ungathered and large sums were lost to the pockets of the urban pickers. Do not let my right hon. Friend ride off on any such suggestion as that, because there are too many Members in every 745 part of the House who know that that cock will not fight. I do not wish to delay the Committee any more. The matter is very urgent. If it has not been considered already, there is very little time to consider it now. If nothing has been done already, I think the right hon. Gentleman must really tell us what he proposes to do.
§ Major DUDGEONI have studied with care the last report of the Department of Agriculture for Scotland, and I think there are very interesting features of the report. I think, generally, the history of the Scottish Department of Agriculture justifies its creation. I remember many of us fighting very strenuously over 20 years ago, in order that Scotland should have a Department of Agriculture of its own. I wish to deal with a matter of local importance. Before passing on to that matter I must just refer to the speech of the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross (Mr. Skelton). In my constituency I am not concerned so much with raspberry growers, but I have a small number of raspberry growers who settled under the Land Settlement Act of 1919, and I know the serious position that they are in at the present time. The only suggestion I would make to the right hon. Gentleman is this: There seems to be a growing demand for raspberries for canning purposes. There is a very marked increase in the consumption. I am told by retailers in London especially that the demand has increased in the last year for canned raspberries. I think it might be of some assistance to raspberry growers if facilities were set up in the raspberry-growing areas for canning raspberries.
I really want to bring before the notice of the right hon. Gentleman and the Committee a matter in connection with the Land Drainage Act of last year. I think my right hon. Friend knows that very serious damage was caused by the flooding of the River Nith, a very important river in South-West Scotland, in 1929. Two farms were practically submerged. No action was taken at that time. It was known that the Government were promoting the Land Drainage Act. That Act was ultimately passed at the end of last year, and its rather slow, cumbersome machinery was started in connection with a scheme for getting this 746 very serious flooding remedied. In the last few weeks there have been further floods, and two large farms have been very seriously damaged. The matter is one of extreme urgency, and it does seem an anomaly that we have this serious damage being ever extended by further flooding of valuable agricultural land, and in the same year the highest ratio of unemployment we have known since the War. Surely some means could be taken whereby an acceleration of this drainage scheme would be achieved.
The unemployed men, many of whom have been out of employment for a number of years, could be put on to this useful work. Every day that is lost in dealing with this matter is causing additional damage and, ultimately, additional expense. I press upon my right hon. Friend to use all his powers, and perhaps go beyond the strict letter of the Statute, in getting this matter dealt with at the earliest possible moment. Surely the Committee realise that, in a case of this kind, delay is most unfortunate. If a breach had been effected on the Western Front during the years of the War, there would not have been a reference to the War Office to see what scheme was to be developed or what practical operations were to take place to remedy the breach. Immediate action by those on the spot would have been taken. I impress upon the right hon. Gentleman that he should get into consultation with those interested—the landowners and the organisations in the area who have taken up this matter—and see if something cannot be done to get this very serious and ever-increasing damage dealt with at the earliest possible moment.
§ Mr. BOOTHBYI wish to say a few words upon the general question of agriculture before the right hon. Gentleman replies. I do not wish to stand for any length of time between him and my hon. Friend the Member for Perth (Mr. Skelton), who has put a specific point to the right hon. Gentleman regarding the fruit growers, but we do not get many opportunities in this House of discussing Scottish agriculture as a whole, and it is not an unimportant subject.
§ Mr. BOOTHBYYes, but at inadequate length, and the right hon. Gentleman had no opportunity upon that occasion of replying to many of the questions addressed to him. I hope that he will give satisfaction to all hon. Members who have addressed the Committee upon the subject of Scottish agriculture since the last Debate, and, in particular, to my hon. Friend the Member for Perth. There is real urgency about the question of the fruit growers. It really exceeds the urgency of the position of beef and cereals and the general position. I understand that if the matter is not dealt with in the course of a very few weeks, the position of the fruit growers in Scotland will be worse than it was last year, and that numbers of them will find themselves faced with complete ruin and bankruptcy. I do not know what action the right hon. Gentleman proposes to take, but I hope that we shall hear something from him before the evening is out.
It is, I am afraid, a characteristic of this Committee at the present juncture that we are precluded, under the rules of debate from discussing remedies for the two main causes of the trouble both with regard to the production of fruit in Scotland and the position of agriculture generally. The two main causes of the trouble, as the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State would obviously admit, are, first of all, the general fall which has taken place in all commodity prices during the last two years which, as on every previous occasion that it has happened in the economic history of the world, has hit agriculture harder than any other industry, and, secondly, as the right hon. Gentleman was careful to point out to the Committee upon the last occasion he addressed it, the fact that, exclusive of cereals, no less than £230,000,000 worth of foodstuffs is imported into this country every year. We are precluded from discussing the main methods by which, and only by which, those main causes can be remedied.
But there are one or two minor aspects of the general question of agriculture to which I would like to direct the attention of the right hon. Gentleman. With regard to the question of marking, I am sure that Members of the Committee will have read with great interest the report of the Departmental Committee on the 748 Grading and Marking of Beef which was issued the other day. Scottish Members of all parties will be particularly gratified by paragraph 36 in the report, which says:
The quality of Scotch beef in particular seldom fell below a very high level of excellence.But there is one paragraph in the report which deserves attention, paragraph 30, on which I should like to ask a question—Nevertheless, a gap remains in the scheme in the London area owing to the fact that a limited number of pieces, usually roastings, and a few short sides, come unmarked to Smithfield from Scotland. Up to now there has bees no provision for grading and marking these supplies. Wholesale and retail buyers on Smithfield offered a considerable amount of evidence to show that this gap gave rise to various difficulties out of proportion to the actual amount of beef involved.The sooner that gap is filled the better, and I should like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman has any proposals to make in regard to it. There was also a question which was addressed to the right hon. Gentleman on the last occasion that this Vote was under discussion by the hon. Member for Central Aberdeen (Mr. R. W. Smith) with regard to the question of marking which is of such vital importance and has been so successful in Aberdeenshire. He pointed out that at the present time there are different marks for the marking of beef in the various counties, and that the opinion of graders as to what is Class 1 beef may vary. The result is that you may get beef graded as Class 1 in the county of Forfarshire and Class 2 in Aberdeenshire, going up to Smithfield and all being graded together as Class 1 meat. That, obviously, is not fair, and steps should be taken to check the marking of the meat as between the different counties so that there shall be no unfair disparity between them. That point was raised by the hon. Member for Central Aberdeen on the last occasion but no answer has so far been vouchsafed to us from the Government.The question of agricultural credits has been a long drawn out controversy, and we can all unite in congratulating the right hon. Gentleman most sincerely upon having at last induced the four banks concerned to put up the necessary capital. It has been a long battle and I do not think that the negotiations reflect 749 any very great credit upon the four other banks who thought fit for so long to hold up a scheme which, I believe, will prove of very great value to the agricultural industry. On the question of drainage, almost every hon. Member who has addressed the Committee has expressed the opinion that the progress at the moment is too slow, and each hon. Member, speaking for his own constituency, has pointed out that at the present time the drainage operations are not going on so effectively, so efficiently or nearly so fast as we would like. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he proposes to take any action to hurry up the drainage operations in Scotland, which are certainly lagging behind.
On the question of research, one of the latest and certainly I think the best research institute in Scotland is the Rowat Research Institute near Aberdeen, which commands the admiration of the whole agricultural world. Anything that the right hon. Gentleman can do to help, facilitate and further the work done by that institute will be doubly repaid. There is one aspect of the question of research that causes some of us anxiety, and that is the method by which the results obtained at the Research Institutes can be communicated to the ordinary practical farmers. That is an aspect of the question of research which deserves very serious attention on the part of the right hon. Gentleman, because, however valuable the results may be that are obtained in the laboratory or in the fields belonging to the research station, they are not going to be of much immediate use to the Scottish farmers unless those results can be placed at their disposal as effectively, as cheaply and as speedily as possible.
Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us, if he can, what steps the Department of Agriculture is taking to secure that any valuable results obtained at any research station are brought to the notice of practical farmers at the earliest possible moments? It would be out of order on this Vote to draw attention to the lack of electricity and facilities for light and power in the various agricultural districts in Scotland, but in that respect we are miles behind our principal competitors on the Continent of Europe and consequently our costs must suffer. On the general question of electrification I would point out the desira- 750 bility of doing everything we can to increase the means of communication, especially telephone communication, in our rural areas. I also want to draw attention to one particular grievance which is felt more keenly in Aberdeenshire than in any part of Scotland, and that is the condition of accommodation roads to farms. They are not placed upon the classified list and, therefore, are not looked after by the county authority or by the State, in fact they are looked after by nobody, and the farmer who is in many cases heavily overdrawn is unable to raise the capital required to bring these roads up to the level of efficiency required before they are taken over by the county authority. They cannot afford it, they cannot raise the capital, and the result is that in many cases these accommodation roads, which are vital to the existence of the farmer, have been allowed to fall into such a condition of disrepair as to become almost impassable.
Finally, I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to spare us a few words as to his general views about the future direction of agriculture in Scotland, where he thinks we are going and what ought to be our ultimate goal. I myself do not believe that there is any great future for cereal farming in Scotland or in Great Britain as a whole. We had better leave that to those vast countries which contain facilities for doing this work upon a scale and at a cost with which we cannot compete. Our future lies, as more and more people who have been studying this question have been pointing out, in stock fanning upon the most intensive possible scale, I was much interested in the figures given by the hon. Member for East Fife (Mr. Millar) in the last Debate, in which he pointed out that if you took the expenditure upon foodstuffs of the ordinary citizens of this country you will find that over 50 per cent. goes on animal products of various sorts and kinds and only 10 per cent. upon foodstuffs and cereals. I should like to see us concentrate far more upon the production of animal products and, as the hon. Member pointed out in his speech the other day, limit the vast importation which takes place every year of animal products into this country, stuff which we can and ought to be able to produce 751 as efficiently ourselves. There was an interesting article by Dr. Orr in the Scottish Journal of Agriculture in which he pointed out the necessity for concentrating on mixed farming.
We have heard a great deal about the five-year plan of Russia. I should like to see the Secretary of State initiate a five-year plan for Scottish agriculture. Let us have a five-year plan designed to treble the production of meat, bacon, cheese, eggs, butter, and, above all, of milk. There is the germ of a constructive agricultural policy for Scotland, and I would like the Secretary of State to sketch in a few words, if he can, whether he agrees with the main lines I have suggested and, if so, what steps he is taking to implement the policy I have ventured to indicate.
§ Mr. GEORGE HARDIEIn regard to the question which has been raised about fruit-growing, I notice in this statement submitted by those concerned in the industry one very important point which is generally left out in the consideration of this question, and that is the cost of transport. We are told, for instance, that the freight upon fruit pulp from the Baltic to London is actually less than half the cost of sending produce from Blairgowrie to Manchester. One of the things which we have to face in connection with this question, is the cost of transport. It is no use coming along with arguments which, in the end, mean Borne form of Protection until you show that you have done everything possible in the organisation of transport to bring down costs. If we are going to deal with this question, we have to keep in mind exactly what is meant by transport costs and keep in mind the fact that there are other elements to be considered apart from those actually engaged in fruit-growing. We are all anxious to do our best to develop every industry in the country, but it cannot be done in a lopsided way. If we are going to help one section, such as the growers of fruit, and then allow the costs of transport to take away the advantages of any help that is given, it will not solve the problem. Again reference has been made to electricity. In 1926 the Conservative Government put through an Electricity Act and we heard glowing accounts of what 752 was going to happen under that Act and how it was going to help the rural areas.
§ The CHAIRMANI have been looking through this Estimate and I can find nothing in it concerning electricity. I should like to know what the Ministry of Agriculture for Scotland have to do with electricity?
§ Mr. HARDIEI was replying to a statement made by the previous speaker. If we are to deal with the competition of other countries in agriculture, we are surely entitled to discuss why those other countries are able to do things which we cannot do.
§ The CHAIRMANWe are at present confined to the Estimate. The hon. Member must await a further opportunity to deal with the wider issues.
§ Mr. HARDIEIs it not the case that we are dealing with the administration of this Department?
§ The CHAIRMANYes, but the Department has no power to deal with electricity supply.
§ Mr. HARDIEBut if the Minister is part of that organisation called the Government——
§ The CHAIRMANThe hon. Gentleman has been long enough a Member of the House to know that on an Estimate we are confined to the Department concerned and to the responsibilities of that Department.
§ Mr. HARDIEThen, leaving out electricity, may I say that the arguments used to-night have all tended to show that there has been something lacking. I have mentioned the question of transport which is referred to in the statement put out by those whose case has been pleaded.
§ The CHAIRMANIf the hon. Member is referring to transport from other countries, again I think that is a matter on which the Minister cannot very well be criticised.
§ Mr. McKINLAYOn a point of Order. The argument is simply used in relation to the cost of production. Arguments were put from the other side in regard to raspberries being dumped here.
§ The CHAIRMANI do not think that that argument was proceeded with, be- 753 cause I looked directly at the hon. Gentleman who was raising it indicating that he could not go further with it, and he stopped.
§ Mr. HARDIEIn the statement to which I have already referred, we are told that strawberries in 1928 were £40 a ton and in 1930 £24 a ton; that raspberries which in 1928 were £38 per ton, in 1930 were £14 per ton, and that black currants which, in 1928 were £63 per ton, in 1930 were £32 per ton. I take it, that it is in order to deal with the question of price and if I am to deal with the price, I must deal with all that goes to make up that price including transport charges.
§ The CHAIRMANIt is in order for a Member to ask the Minister about the price of a particular crop and the difficulties that have arisen, but it is not in order to go into the question of transport from another country, which is not under his control at all.
§ The CHAIRMANFarmers' roads.
Mr. MACLEANIf the Minister is asked to obviate certain difficulties which have led to fluctuations in prices, and the Minister makes a statement in regard to the cost of transport, will you rule the Minister out of order when he is dealing with that as one of the factors in the fluctuations of price?
§ The CHAIRMANThe Minister has no power over transport, and therefore he cannot discuss it.
§ Mr. G. HARDIEIs it not a fact that the Minister has power to deal with other things that contribute to the prices which I have quoted? Has he power to do anything at all in relation, say, to the cheapening of labour in the production of raspberries, currants and strawberries?
§ The CHAIRMANI do not think that he has anything to do with the price of those things at all.
§ Mr. HARDIEWhy should it be in order for the Minister to listen to the appeal from the other side of the Committee to do something?
§ The CHAIRMANThe hon. Member must understand that the Opposition can put forward a statement that prices have varied, and ask the Minister if he is able to do anything in the interest of the fruit-growers, so far as his administration is concerned, but not beyond that.
§ Mr. HARDIEIf the administration of the Department can deal with everything that qualifies prices, and leaves out transport, we must deal with a separate Department.
§ The CHAIRMANThe hon. Member has been long enough in the House to know that in dealing with the Estimates of a Department, the administration of the Minister who is responsible is under review. I must also inform the hon. Gentleman that he must accept my Ruling.
§ Mr. HARDIETo continue——
§ The CHAIRMANIf the hon. Member means to continue to call my Ruling in question, he cannot continue.
§ Mr. HARDIEI only want to continue what I was going to say. When fruit growers come to see us as Scottish Members, we have to take a statement of their case, and any statement that is to be considered by the Scottish Department has to take in everything that has relation to it, and I hope that the Secretary of State will not be misled by anything that has been said from the other side, but that he will take in purview all the facts. I hope that he will not be misled because certain things cannot be touched by his Department. If we take the cost of fruit from the time when it is put into the basket, leaving out transport, we are bound to find out from the Secretary of State whether anything can be done to help the industry. The question of the rents came up. That is always brought in, I notice, when the land is not in the hands of private owners.
§ Mr. SKELTONSo far as I know, the great bulk of these fruit growers are not settlers under the Department of Agriculture, but are owners of the raspberry lands they cultivate. That is why I suggested a possible remission of rent as a partial assistance.
§ Mr. HARDIEI was not referring to the hon. Member. I was referring to a statement that the Government might 755 forego rents in certain cases. That is the kind of thing that means we are only going to have a lopsided consideration of this matter, not taking into account all the other factors which enter into the situation, and I hope the Secretary of State will not be misled by those statements and keep to the main point.
Mr. R. W. SMITHThere is a point I wish to put to the Secretary of State arising out of the report of the Department of Agriculture. There is a reference on page 101 to the Scottish Horticultural Advisory Committee. I wonder whether any further information can be given to supplement the statement made there that among other matters considered were the canning of home-grown fruit and vegetables and the restriction of imports of horticultural produce. It would be interesting to have a little information as to what the Committee advised on those points. A second question I wish to put concerns the grading of meat. The Committee which reported on meat marking stated that in England, for the purpose of securing uniformity in grading, a chief grader ought to be appointed to supervise from London the work of graders in those centres in England and Wales, where the scheme is in operation. I wish to know whether any such suggestion has been made in regard to Scotland. Finally, I would like to reinforce the inquiry of the hon. Member for East Aberdeenshire (Mr. Boothby) as to what steps are being taken to see that the results of research work are brought before our farmers.
Mr. W. ADAMSONWhen these Estimates were submitted to the Committee on 3rd June I took the opportunity of making a comprehensive survey of the position of Scottish agriculture and the work of the Department of Agriculture in Scotland, and therefore it is not necessary for me to trouble the Committee tonight with another survey of agricultural affairs; but I may be permitted to touch on a few points raised in the course of the last discussion, notwithstanding the fact that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary covered, I think, nearly every point that was put in the Debate. In the first place, I would like to refer to an important agricultural event which is taking place in Edinburgh this week, the centenary show of the Highland and Agri- 756 cultural Society. The show was honoured to-day by the presence of His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, who has evinced, as he so often does, a real personal interest in our premier industry. It is, indeed, unfortunate that an event of such importance as the centenary show of the Highland and Agricultural Society should have occurred at the same time as the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease, an extremely inopportune moment. I am sure that hon. Members will agree with me in sympathising with the society in the difficulties in which they are placed. Notwithstanding the absence of the greater part of the livestock exhibits, there is, I understand, much of interest to be seen in the exhibition, and particularly in the special exhibition that has been organised by the Department of Agriculture in order to illustrate various aspects of its work and the many activities in which it is engaged, particularly in the field of education and research, to which the hon. Member for East Aberdeen (Mr. Boothby) made reference in the course of the present Debate.
I have been asked by the hon. Member for Perth (Mr. Skelton) to say if any steps can now be taken to assist the small fruit-growers of Scotland in the struggle with which they find themselves faced at the present time. I have had an opportunity already of discussing the difficulties with which the raspberry growers particularly are faced with a representative of the Fruit Growers' Association. I have informed the association that, in my opinion, a considerable amount can be done to help by the setting up of a joint marketing organisation. Quite apart from the advantages that such an association would give them, are the advantages to be secured through the Agricultural Marketing Bill, which, I hope, will soon become law. It would not be in order for me to discuss the advantages that the Agricultural Marketing Bill would give to the raspberry growers, in which the hon. Member for Perth is particularly interested, but I wanted to inform him that I have discussed this matter very fully with the representatives of the Fruit Growers' Association, and have pointed out the advantages that would be given by the Bill to which I had referred, in the way of enabling them to organise their marketing.
§ Mr. SKELTONThe raspberry grower, unlike the Government, does not have an Autumn Session.
Mr. ADAMSONI am sure the hon. Member for Perth will realise that I do not need to be reminded about the difficulties of the raspberry growers and of the straits in which they are placed. He particularly referred to the position of that section of smallholders engaged in the raspberry industry who are tenants of the Department of Agriculture itself, and asked if there was any particular proposal which either the Department or I had in view that would help them. As he knows, most of the smallholdings to which he referred are situated in the Dundee district. I am informed that the smallholders are in negotiation with the canning factories which have been established at Dundee, and I have every hope and expectation that these negotiations between the smallholders and those in charge of the canning factory may turn out satisfactorily. I trust they will be able to make a bargain with that factory that will at least help them over the difficulty.
Another point which the hon. Member put to me was whether anything could be done by way of reduction of rent to help them in this time of difficulty. I am informed that, so far as the payment of rent by that section of the smallholder tenants of the Department of Agriculture is concerned, it is quite satisfactory, and there is little or no uneasiness so far as these particular tenants are concerned. But I need hardly say that, in any proved cases of hardship, the Department would give consideration to that, just as they have been in the habit of doing in the past to the cases of their tenants who are engaged in any other form of agriculture. I would say, however, to the hon. Member who is interested in the raspberry growers, that I have already asked the Lord Privy Seal, who is chairman of the Marketing Committee of the Empire Marketing Board, to examine any application from the Scottish raspberry growers for assistance on the lines, which have already proved so successful, of British and Empire butter marketing shops by which the proportion of shops stocking this butter has risen from 54 per cent. to 74 per cent. I am discussing with my night hon. Friend the possibility of the raspberry growers being assisted 758 through the medium of the Empire Marketing Board, and if I can do anything for them through that medium, I shall be more than pleased to do it.
I have deliberately kept off the debate-able ground of tariffs, although those who are putting questions to me were coming dangerously near it. There are other methods of helping small fruit growers in Scotland, just as there are other methods of helping other sections of agriculture than by tariffs, but if I began to discuss the other methods, I would very quickly come into conflict with the Chairman's Ruling, and I do not want to do that. I can assure those Members who were tempting me to discuss certain things to-night that I should be most happy to oblige them if we had more time at our disposal——
§ The CHAIRMANEven if the right hon. Gentleman had the time, it would not be in order to do so on this occasion.
Mr. ADAMSONGiven freedom and time, I would have been most happy to oblige some of my hon. Friends. In the meantime, I content myself with saying that I have been examining the position of the small fruit growers of Scotland as closely as it is possible for the hon. Member for Perth (Mr. Skelton) to examine it, and I repeat that, if it is possible for me to do anything to help them, I shall be more than pleased to do it.
With regard to the question of drainage, which was raised by the hon. and gallant Member for Galloway (Major Dudgeon), I do not know whether he was present when I was making a survey of the agricultural position in Scotland on the 3rd June, but, if he was, he will remember that I said that the surveys and inquiries necessary for the preparation of schemes of arterial drainage works under Section 3 of the Act are being actively undertaken. The chief schemes under examination are the Kelvin Valley Drainage Scheme, the River Annan Drainage Scheme, and the River Nith scheme, and surveys are also in progress for the preparation of schemes of works to prevent flooding of the River Lossie. [Interruption.] The question of telephones was raised by the hon. Member for one of the Divisions of Aberdeen. That, however, is not a matter for me, but for the Post Office, and the hon. Member should take ad- 759 vantage of the Post Office Estimates, when they come up, to put that question. There have been a number of other questions which time will not permit me to discuss, but possibly on some future occasion I shall have the opportunity and the time to cover some of the points which have been put.
Mr. R. W. SMITHMay I inquire, for the third time of asking, if it is possible for the right hon. Gentleman to give me a reply to the question which I raised?
Mr. ADAMSONWe have made arrangements for the grading and marking of beef in the Aberdeen, Moray and Banff divisions, and we have also made arrangements recently for grading and marking of beef in the Smithfield Market. I may say that those arrangements have not been taken much advantage of at present, but they have been made.
§ It being Eleven of the Clock, the CHAIRMAN left the Chair to make his Report to the House.
§ Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.